The.Bird@f38.n135.z1.fidonet.org (The "Bird") (02/12/91)
I have been wanting to ask this question for many months. Many studies require
t4 counts above 400 or a similar number. My blood reports from National Health
Labs indicates a NORMAL t4 count range to be 400-1500.
Since I got AIDS (PCP) my t4 count has never been higher than 97 and is
probably non-existant by now. Can someone please explain to me what the hell
good are trials for people who DO NOT HAVE AIDS since their t4 counts preclude
that diagnosis? Have we who are t4 celless <grin> just been written off?
"Bird"
--
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!135!38!The."Bird"
Internet: The."Bird"@f38.n135.z1.fidonet.orgjayt@drbear.COM (Jay Tyson) (02/13/91)
The.Bird@f38.n135.z1.fidonet.org (The "Bird") writes: > I have been wanting to ask this question for many months. Many studies requir > t4 counts above 400 or a similar number. My blood reports from National Healt > Labs indicates a NORMAL t4 count range to be 400-1500. > > Since I got AIDS (PCP) my t4 count has never been higher than 97 and is > probably non-existant by now. Can someone please explain to me what the hell > good are trials for people who DO NOT HAVE AIDS since their t4 counts preclud > that diagnosis? Have we who are t4 celless <grin> just been written off? > > "Bird" I have also been maening to ask the same question. Is there anything that will raise T4 counts. Mine is currently 10. It has been as low as 4 and once "two few to count" (however my Dr. feels the lab may have been in error in that isolated draw) I understand that interluken 2 (please forgive if it is not spelled properly) will raise t4 counts only for a short period of time then the drug become non-effective and the counts drop again. Also, am I barking up the wrong tree. The more the t cells the better chance of fighting off infection. Right? If we find something to raise the t4 cell count that should increase the chances for longer term servival? -- John "Jay" Tyson \ Drummer Bear Systems \ jayt@drbear.COM 1259 El Camino Real, #214 /\ ...!{decwrl|saxony}!drbear!jayt Menlo Park, CA 94025 / \ / \ I want to die... living!
bob@ozdaltx.UUCP (Bob Culmer) (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb12.164134.3900@cs.ucla.edu>, The.Bird@f38.n135.z1.fidonet.org (The "Bird") writes: > Many studies require t4 counts above 400 or a similar number. > Labs indicates a NORMAL t4 count range to be 400-1500. > > Can someone please explain to me what the hell good are trials for people > who DO NOT HAVE AIDS since their t4 counts preclude that diagnosis? My information has been that healthy T counts are above 800. The "normal" range range shown on the lab reports may have a more liberal interpretation of the usual circumstances and infections people have that would cause the counts to vary down as low as 400. In any event, T counts do NOT indicate the presence or absence of AIDS. An HIV infected person will at some point in their history (post infection) have normal level T counts and any number of other values depending upon how they are responding to treatment etc. Having an actual AIDS diagnosis according to CDC standards does not rule out having a T count above 400 - I know several such people. As to why some of the studies are looking for people with high T counts it is a matter of trying determine whether the treatment can maintain higher levels (which are generally assumed to be an overall indicator of one's general health and ability to resist progression of the disease). The studies need to determine if the treatment can be helpful in earlier stages of the disease. Pre-AIDS it was all too common for new treatments for terminal illnesses to be postponed so late in the disease that benefits they may have provided were not evident. Very late in any disease failures of a treatment may mean the treatment is not effective but could mean that the treatment was too late. Not being accepted for a particular study or trial does not necessarily mean you cannot get the same treatment. If there is a particular treatment or drug that you had in mind maybe here or in AIDS Treatment News you can get more information on its use and availability. What has your doctor said about this particular treatment? -- Bob Culmer - Dallas | Auntie Em - Somewhere over the rainbow | Hate you. Hate Kansas. Taking the dog. ...in the Land of OZ | - Dorothy {mic,void,egsner}!ozdaltx!bob
marco@ozdaltx.UUCP (Steve Giammarco) (02/14/91)
In article <1991Feb12.164134.3900@cs.ucla.edu>, The.Bird@f38.n135.z1.fidonet.org (The "Bird") writes: > I have been wanting to ask this question for many months. Many studies require > t4 counts above 400 or a similar number. My blood reports from National Health > Labs indicates a NORMAL t4 count range to be 400-1500. > > Since I got AIDS (PCP) my t4 count has never been higher than 97 and is > probably non-existant by now. Can someone please explain to me what the hell > good are trials for people who DO NOT HAVE AIDS since their t4 counts preclude > that diagnosis? Have we who are t4 celless <grin> just been written off? A couple of things popped into mind here. Caution sez I should remind everyone that the next few statements are regarding the activity known as SCIENCE and has nothing to do with my opinions about compassionate use of *any* drug. (1) It's kinda hard to tell if one's T-cells (T4 or CD4) are improving while using a particular drug with an absolute count of less than 400. MD's tell me that such counts can vary as much as 200 points over a period of several hours, *especially* in someone fighting a viral infection. Higher T-cell populations can show up or downward trends if you "smooth" the math of daily variations. (2) Lots of today's drugs have unknown side effects. If someone who is constitutionally and clinically ill is given such a drug, the result may be to further destabilize an already touchy situation. Drug side effects can be an unwanted stressor on immune and other body systems. Scientists are starting to rethink the model that says "Let's give 'em the biggest dose we can until they get sick." Use of Alpha Interferon was one of those drugs that shed some light on this mode of thinking. NOTE: I believe that *anyone* can be given *any* drug as long as they are informed of the consequences if side effects are known, and if unknown, informed of the consequences that drugs of this class usually are. If you are big enough to choose the drug, then you must be big enough to accept the consequences, good or bad. This is where the *cure* can be worse than the *disease*. -- Steve Giammarco 5330 Peterson Ln #1211 Dallas TX 75240 214.788.0976 AIDS Resource Center 4012 Cedar Springs Rd Dallas TX 75219 214.521.5124 X.400(C:USA A:Western Union N:Steve Giammarco D:ELN-62847823) Easylink:62847823 {mic,void,egsner}!ozdaltx!marco || {uunet,smu,ames}!sulaco!ozdaltx!marco