ritchie@hp-lsd.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) (08/03/89)
To all, here is the summary of responses I received regarding my post requesting information concerning office space. The names have been removed. Enjoy! Dave Ritchie ========================================================================== I see by your address that you work for my old employer -hp-. In 1975, several -hp- people left to start up Tandem Computers (including myself), and one universal demand in this group was that software people WILL have private offices (2 to the office with doors that shut). Most of us had worked in -hp-'s building 42 Upper, where several hundred people work in one room, and it is virtually guaranteed that at least one phone will be ringing at all times. Good luck trying to get -hp- to change their bullpen policy. The best ammunition I can think of is the book ``Peopleware'' by De Marco and Lister. They point out that during intense creative design (e.g., programming) each interruption costs you 15 minutes, by the time you deal with the interruption and refocus your concentration. I conclude that if you can hear a phone ring more than 4 times per hour, you will get nothing done. This is why at -hp- I always worked nights and weekends and avoided 9-5. When Tandem got their first real building, they looked at costs and found that 2-man offices are scarcely more expensive than carrels, and I feel strongly that the productivity gain much more than pays the difference. ========================================================================== I am unhappy with my office. "World Headquarters" for the then independent Compugraphic Corp. was built during the energy crises by a very cheap management team. They used ugly brown cinderblocks and the made the windows very small. Can you say State Penitentiary? The worst problem though is the interior layout which is large open floor space with only 5 1/2 foot cubicles. Level 3 and 5 (associate and regular software engineers) have to share an 8 by 10 cubicle. Senior Software Engineers like me get a whole 8 x 10 cubicle, and Principle Software Engineers get a whole office. The two major functions of S.E. conflict badly in this environment. In one cubicle you have 3 people jammed around a white board discussing a problem, while next door someone is trying to concentrate but is unable to do so because of the noise. We have only the very cheapest office furniture and very few comfortable chairs and definitely no ergonomically-designed adjustable workstation tables. Rumor has it that the new management is going to redo everything, but I doubt they have read Peopleware. Any suggestions on how to affect (infect?) their thinking? ========================================================================== I'm in a (roughly) 10x12 two man closed office with a window into a hall. (About 1/3 the offices have outside windows). The office is OK, if minimal. If wouldn't consider it a feature... ========================================================================== Ashton Tate has just moved one set of developers into new quarters. These offices are about twelve by fourteen with two people inside. The office has a door, and walls which reach to the ceiling. It is a real office, and not just a cube. In fact, the office is split into two cubes: one for each occupant. Each cube is about seven feet by twelve feet. The occupant sits in the middle of a u-shaped modular component table. Above one side of the U are two shelves providing twelve feet of open shelf space. Below the table on this side are desk components: three drawers, one of the a filing cabinet. At the base of the U is a keyboard holder which can be stashed under the table. Actually, I find this useless as it doesn't hold a mouse and places the keyboard in an awkward position. I don't use it. Above the other side of the U are cabinet shelves which can be locked. under the table on this side is are four filing cabinet drawers. Underneath the bottom shelf and the cabinets are some harsh fluorescents, which I never use. Each person is also supplied with a standing cabinet, maybe four feet by five feet. And there is one very ergonomic and nice chair! Each office is equipped with up to six ethernet/serial connections. Most people have one or two types of machines and/or terminals depending upon what they need. I have a microvax II workstation and a toshiba laptop. They did a very nice job here. Perhaps the only complaint is a lack of windows: There are inner and outer offices and not enough windows for each. You should check out IBM's San Jose offices. They built a site with lots of specs inorder to boost programmer productivity. Several years ago there were several papers written about it. I believe I may have some xeroxed copies, if you are interested. ========================================================================== I'm working in a 10' x 12' office with one other person. We have an outside window, although most other people in my organization do not. Since we are European, we have arranged our desks to face each other (rather than both facing the wall, which seems to be more common in the US). The passageways in our building are 5' wide, and there are no windows at the ends, nor are there any windows between the offices and the passages. Most people in the organization are very insistent on having separate offices (rather than bullpens). But I sense an increased degree of "wandering the halls" since we moved to this building from a brighter and more open building. The organization is involved in software development. I'm particularly interested in these type of issues, and have considered doing some further work (academic/professional) in the area. I'd be very interested to discuss the subject further with you, and would like to hear the results of your net request. ========================================================================== I share a 10x12 closed office with another programmer and no window. :-( I would be happier with a cubicle than sharing an office with a door, even a window. :-I Of course, I am happiest (and most productive) with my own office with a door; however, a window would be OK! :-) ========================================================================== > I was wondering what companies provide their employees in the way of >office space (open/closed offices, size, windows) and whether or not >employees are satisified with the office space they occupy. Please mail >your comments to me and I will post a summary. At Bellcore, we have, almost for all technical staff, two-person closed offices -- most without windows. The privacy is nice on occasion, but the isolation from one another is, in my opinion, a psychological factor that may not be well studied. I have read the reports about private offices, phone pick-up, noise reduction, etc. I know they advocate all three as productivity enhancers. I agree with the noise and the phone pick-up. I am not so sure that the of- fice privacy comes without its down side. I have been to various HP loca- tions (as well as those of many other companies). I do not feel that the open style at HP was noisy or invaded my sense of "privacy" in any meaning- ful way. I like it better as it is brighter and there is a sense in which everyone has a "window." One of our buildings in Piscataway is done with movable (takes some effort but no demolition) metal (not at all ugly though) walls which have glass at the tops. Thus, natural light does get in to almost all the offices to some degree. This is what I think is important. I think there have been studies (apart from those done in the computer field) about natural light simulation and its impor- tance to many people. People ought to consider that along with privacy since the light might be more of a spirit enhancer which may be far more important in boosting productivity, attitude, etc. On the other hand, I adapt fairly well wherever I work and have never worked where the physical conditions were poor. However, I KNOW I work better when I have natural light available. In fact, I prefer to work on a sunny day and am not motivated much at all when it is dreary out. ========================================================================== Our company provides the usual open stall type of office layouts which I find very frustrating. At the current moment in my cubicle I can hear (clearly): - someone bursting listings - a three person conversation about problems in an existing release - a manager trying to find out how to set up a LAN s/w option - a gentleman behind me lighting up another cigarette (the smoke will soon follow) This is not an effective environment to work in but unfortunately it is corporate wide policy. The cubicle sizes vary, mine is 10x8 (feet). ========================================================================== I work at AG Communication Systems. I have: 1 desk 2 bookshelves 1 table 1 terminal stand with an Apollo DN3500 workstation that can also connect me to our IBM 3090 mainframe I don't have any windows, but I don't share an office. Actually, it's not so much an office as it is a cubicle - movable walls connected to form a rectangle. Our standard offices are 6 feet by 9 feet. The offices get bigger as you get promoted. You may want to look at the book called _Peopleware_ that talks about the importance of such things. It even identifies meaningful metrics that you can collect on this subject. ========================================================================== I find these elements work well: - walls to keep noise out - sharing a space with another person is good for impromptu brainstorming - south-facing window large enough to provide enough natural light so that artificial lights aren't required (except after sunset). - enough desk space so that I can multi-task. The desk should be large enough to hold my Mac, several listings open, plus a few file folders open and my briefcase open with still enough space to be writing on a pad of paper. As a consultant, I get to work in a lot of different office configurations. The elements above are my preferences. ========================================================================== I'm moderately happy with mine. I have a semi-private office (only one roommate) of about 140 sq ft. I was given no choice of officemate (my current one is ok, but I almost got saddled with one who will NOT get along with me, no matter what I do & I had no say in the matter). For comparison, I'm 40, have over 20 years professional experience and bounce between being a techie and a technical manager (software development and systems engineering). ========================================================================== I have a "cubbie", which is okay. What I REALLY HATE is when a company blocks all the windows with management offices. That leaves us peons with no real walls, no privacy, no view. You can't even stand up and look out a window to rest your eyes from the glare of a terminal. Seems to me there are at least two styles of office architecture out there: One, typified by DEC, clusters management offices in the center of the build- ing. At least when I worked there, official policy was that no one had a window. I like that. The other type, like here, reward management by giving them not only more money and more prestige but windows which block the rest of our views. This creates a sweatshop environment. Next time I interview for a job, I'll check out the office arrangements. I won't be working at another company that blocks windows. I feel the style reflects an attitude at the top about who's important and who isn't. I prefer to work somewhere where my contribution is valued enough to provide me with a relaxing view. ========================================================================== Here at FICC, we (programmer/analysts) are given offices to share 2 per office. Outside windows are reserved for 1 per office management types. We have an atrium in the middle of the building that the 2nd and 3rd floors have offices with windows into ... reserved for employees with a number of years tenure at the company (or a little luck :-) Basically, I like it a lot. I don't have a window office, which would be nice, but it beats the heck out of cubes. And the whole key is to team up with an officemate you can handle. ========================================================================== So far, at least, Apollo provides full-sized, full-height offices, and we're real keen on them. Windows vary somewhat by building; in the building I'm in currently window offices tend to be doubles. For what it's worth I personally don't care for window offices, but I am fond of having a separate, private, office. It might not be #1 on my checkoff list, but wandering into an environment filled with miles of cubicles starts off an interviewing experience on a negative note. From a recent poll of employees when our newest building was being laid out, this is by far the consensus opinion. Two comments: one, that poll *was* con- ducted and acted on, and two, I understand we're in a minority position compared to our new HP brethren on this issue... But I'd rather fight than switch! ========================================================================== The standard Convex office is a 150 foot square room, carpeted, with walls from floor to ceiling, solid wood door with 1'x4' window in it, and equipped with Herman Miller modular furniture attached to the walls. Everyone from the Vice Presidents to programmers, payables clerks, and gofers has this same basic office with essentially the same equipment and furniture. Every office has a fiber-optic connec- tion serving telephone, ASCII, X-terminals, and Applenet capability. None of the standard offices abuts an exterior window. (Exception: the two founders offices are about 200 sf, they do abut a second story window, and have free-standing furniture. They are notably more spartan than an office I had in an earlier incarnation.) Because Convex has avoided bullpens, "choice" locations, office size, and varying grades of furniture wood, we tend to be happy campers, with little of the usual grousing about elitism, etc. The offices are comfortable, well-lit, furnished according the employee's needs (need a bookshelf? just e-mail facilities a week ahead of time & it's yours). The under-shelf lighting is nice, especially for workstation types, who can turn off the overhead stuff, but still be able to function. The closed plan offers more privacy and reduce noise distractions. On the down-side )-: probably the biggest beef is between the "halfs" and the "half-nots." Some of these 150 sf offices are shared by two people, and some are not. The determinants, typically, are seniority and rank. This is a blatant inconsistency in an otherwise egalitarian arrangement. And it's not a matter of degree... either you share, or you don't. About the only other negatives are minor... some people don't like facing the wall, and the HM modular stuff forces you to do so, at least some of the time (it takes less space, though); some people don't like the window in the door, but they are free to cover it with something (most of us work with the door open most of the time). On the whole, Convex strikes a balance between quiet, comfortable, pleasant surroundings, and avoids the extremes of crowded, hot/cold, noisy offices, or opulent, exorbitant, and wasteful offices.
reggie@dinsdale.nm.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) (08/07/89)
In article <10440004@hp-lsd.HP.COM> ritchie@hp-lsd.HP.COM (Dave Ritchie) writes: >To all, > here is the summary of responses I received regarding my post >requesting information concerning office space. The names have been >removed. >========================================================================== Most people seem to share the same opinions on this subject. However, there was one entry that took a different view: >========================================================================== >At Bellcore, we have, almost for all technical staff, two-person closed >offices -- most without windows. Right, I worked at Bellcore, so I know what this person is talking about :-) >The privacy is nice on occasion, but the isolation from one another is, in my >opinion, a psychological factor that may not be well studied. I have read the >reports about private offices, phone pick-up, noise reduction, etc. I know >they advocate all three as productivity enhancers. I have to disagree here. The privacy is not nice on occasion. It is essential when performing tasks that require thinking and concentration. *I* never had to close the door at Bellcore. At other places I have worked there is *NO* escape from the noise. I also arrive at work very early in the morning so that I can get something done before the noise starts around 8AM. >I agree with the noise and the phone pick-up. I am not so sure that the of- >fice privacy comes without its down side. I have been to various HP loca- >tions (as well as those of many other companies). I do not feel that the >open style at HP was noisy or invaded my sense of "privacy" in any meaning- >ful way. I find this rather hard to believe. How long did this person work in any such environment. >I like it better as it is brighter and there is a sense in which everyone has >a "window." One of our buildings in Piscataway is done with movable (takes >some effort but no demolition) metal (not at all ugly though) walls which have >glass at the tops. Thus, natural light does get in to almost all the offices >to some degree. Not much light gets to someone sitting in a cube. I would never know if it is day or night, raining or sunny, except for the moise on the roof :-) >This is what I think is important. I think there have been studies (apart from >those done in the computer field) about natural light simulation and its impor- >tance to many people. People ought to consider that along with privacy since >the light might be more of a spirit enhancer which may be far more important >in boosting productivity, attitude, etc. Windows are nice. I have had offices on the interior of the floor and those with windows. However, there are other problems like glare affecting the surface of your workstation. >On the other hand, I adapt fairly well wherever I work and have never worked >where the physical conditions were poor. However, I KNOW I work better when >I have natural light available. In fact, I prefer to work on a sunny day and >am not motivated much at all when it is dreary out. Well then you must not be all that productive working in New Jersey :-) Seriously, there are some people who are not affected as much as others when it comes to noise. I don't know if this is conditioning or what. All I know is that I have worked in a variety of situations and having a room with walls is essential. At least *YOU* may choose when you want isolation. With cubicals, as many pointed out in the article you are at the mercy of those around you. As far as the social factor goes, how hard is it for someone to get up and walk into someone else's room to talk? If people being is different offices is preventing talking, you have far greater problems. Using cubes won't solve them. George W. Leach AT&T Paradyne (uunet|att)!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-133 Phone: 1-813-530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 FAX: 1-813-530-8224 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826
barkley@tlab1.cs.unc.edu (Matthew Barkley) (08/08/89)
Duro-Test Corporation sells (or used to sell) a special line of fluorescents called Vitalite. They have a spectrum very close to sunlight, including a smidgen of ultraviolet. They are even bluer than cool white, and do impart a bit of a daylight feel to an office. I bought some ($8 apiece[!] vs. $1 for cool white) and used them for over a year. They may have been a little easier on my eyes, but I can't really tell: my office had a sliding glass door onto a courtyard == one huge window. However, my next job looks like it will be in a tiny, windowless office, so I'm taking them along. Looking a CRTs all day since just the first of this year -- in a large but windowless room --has definitely hurt my vision. I have no connection with Duro-Test except as a customer. Matt Barkley barkley@cs.unc.edu Any opinions expressed are not necessarily shared by anyone else, and may not even be my own. How an organization can have an opinion is beyond me.
duncan@dduck.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) (08/08/89)
In article <6474@pdn.paradyne.com> reggie@dinsdale.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) writes: > Most people seem to share the same opinions on this subject. >However, there was one entry that took a different view: >>At Bellcore, we have, almost for all technical staff, two-person closed >>offices -- most without windows. >>The privacy is nice on occasion, but the isolation from one another is, in my >>opinion, a psychological factor that may not be well studied. I have read the >>reports about private offices, phone pick-up, noise reduction, etc. I know >>they advocate all three as productivity enhancers. > >I have to disagree here. The privacy is not nice on occasion. It is essential >when performing tasks that require thinking and concentration. *I* never had >to close the door at Bellcore. I've almost never closed the door (only for interviews of candidates or when other people in the room wished it closed). And I never felt I had to due to any noise. > At other places I have worked there is *NO* >escape from the noise. I also arrive at work very early in the morning so >that I can get something done before the noise starts around 8AM. Actually, I got into the habit of arriving early almost ANYWHERE that I worked to get things done, not before noise began, but before meetings began and un- scheduled tasks arose. I have always found interruptions by people actively wanting my attention (rather than area noise) to be the biggest problem no matter where I've worked. And I have worked in single office, double-office, and open architecture places -- at least two different jobs with each kind of layout. >>I agree with the noise and the phone pick-up. I am not so sure that the of- >>fice privacy comes without its down side. I have been to various HP loca- >>tions (as well as those of many other companies). I do not feel that the >>open style at HP was noisy or invaded my sense of "privacy" in any meaning- >>ful way. > >I find this rather hard to believe. How long did this person work in any >such environment. Sorry, but this is my experience after 3.5 years and 1.5 years in open layouts of this nature. I must admit that I never worked in a facility with as many people in the "room" as I have seen at HP, so I cannot say what the long-term impact of so many people in an open layout would be. The largest number of people in such a layout which I experienced was about 40 people. (I did work in a facility where there were more for a short while but the keypunch noise -- that gives you an idea how long ago -- caused others around the DP Dept. to complain so we were "walled in," but things were left open on either side of the walls.) >>I like it better as it is brighter and there is a sense in which everyone has >>a "window." One of our buildings in Piscataway is done with movable (takes >>some effort but no demolition) metal (not at all ugly though) walls which have >>glass at the tops. Thus, natural light does get in to almost all the offices >>to some degree. > >Not much light gets to someone sitting in a cube. I would never know if it >is day or night, raining or sunny, except for the moise on the roof :-) Again, my two experiences with an open architecture were that LOTS of natural light existed. I have seen extra tall cubicle arrangements that try to simu- late private offices and they do cancel out lots of natural light. The two experiences I had were with cubicle walls about 4.5' tall. Lots of light from windows around the sides pervaded the rooms such that overhead lighting was often not even needed on a bright day. >>This is what I think is important. I think there have been studies (apart from >>those done in the computer field) about natural light simulation and its impor- >>tance to many people. People ought to consider that along with privacy since >>the light might be more of a spirit enhancer which may be far more important >>in boosting productivity, attitude, etc. > >Windows are nice. I have had offices on the interior of the floor and those >with windows. However, there are other problems like glare affecting the >surface of your workstation. True...I've always been able to move my workstation around in such situations (including some at Bellcore) even with modular-type furniture. >>On the other hand, I adapt fairly well wherever I work and have never worked >>where the physical conditions were poor. However, I KNOW I work better when >>I have natural light available. In fact, I prefer to work on a sunny day and >>am not motivated much at all when it is dreary out. > there are some people who are not affected as much as others >when it comes to noise. I don't know if this is conditioning or what. >All I know is that I have worked in a variety of situations and having >a room with walls is essential. At least *YOU* may choose when you want >isolation. With cubicals, as many pointed out in the article you are at >the mercy of those around you. This is, to me, the important issue: the element of personal choice. So I actually favor some sort of semi-private (if absolutely private is not feasible due to space/cost) office arrangement to the open one even though I don't mind the latter. I think natural light and the ability to choose the level of noise/privacy is important. Has anyone ever worked where the offices are glass from about midway up all around -- you see this in TV shows sometimes in police offices, etc. I did work in one place (the old DP shop) where they walled my boss off and the two of us who programmed with such a set-up. Again, it never bothered me one way or the other. > As far as the social factor goes, While I have not seen a Bellcore-based survey on this subject, there were some taken at other places I've worked. The "social" aspect showed up in the con- cerns people had about communications between levels of people. Walls and pri- vate offices made it less likely, according to the surveys, for people to con- sider "bothering" someone. That is, people were less inclined to enter a room than a cubicle. Now this may be very good for the raw productivity of the in- dividual. I am just wondering if it hampered informal/impromptu team-building in any way? > how hard >is it for someone to get up and walk into someone else's room to talk? In some of the situations, it seems to have been a slight discouragement. One can say that, therefore, perhaps the issue WASN'T important enough to have bothered another person. Again, I'm not sure, but the surveys taken in these places ranked some communications problems higher where there were closed ar- chitectures vs the open ones. However, the surveys also listed noise factors in the open ones vbs the closed ones. > If >people being is different offices is preventing talking, you have far greater >problems. Using cubes won't solve them. True, but, as I said, the surveys done at these other places highlighted this issue. Now maybe one kind of architecture attracts certain kinds of people and another attracts other kind such that inclination for social mixing is stronger in one than another. Just chaning architectures would not, in any short-term situation, change that at all. I've just never seen studies where some of the details about social interaction were studied along with the indi- vidual privacy and noise issues. Like I said, I've read the studies about this and know the overwhelming evi- dence for the closed architectures when it comes to reduction of various kinds of distractions. But my PERSONAL experience is such that I've noted different kinds of social interactions in the different architectures. (Plus the local survey results which somewhat back this up. I say somewhat since I cannot attest to how the surveys were actually done at the time compared to the study results about noise/distractions.) But since the original request asked for personal opinions about their environ- ment, I felt I'd just add mine since I have been in several settings over the years. Frankly, what I liked mostly about the offices with "real" walls was the space I would get for shelves! I always have a bunch of books, magazines, article files, etc. The open architectures I was in did not have enough shelving as they needed free-standing bookcases. (I assume this has changed with improve- ments in techology for cubicles -- my last two jobs were with private or semi- private offices.) Oh...one more comment. The major problem with the cubicles and distractions -- again, just for me at least -- was that discussions overheard were not WORTH listening in on in many cases. They were often of a more personal than techni- cal nature, so the interruption wasn't worth the time it took. When discussion was on a technical subject, it was -- for me again -- quite often worth it to notice and join in. Electronic forums could help in this regard -- not all people at all companies have this sort of access. However, assuming people were actually talking about work and not just passing the time, some of the distraction element was not, to me, such a problem as it encouraged impromptu exchanges that I valued. >George W. Leach AT&T Paradyne >(uunet|att)!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-133 >Phone: 1-813-530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 >FAX: 1-813-530-8224 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826 Speaking only for myself, of course, I am... Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan) (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ 08854) (201-699-3910 (w) 609-737-2945 (h))
johnm@uts.amdahl.com (John Murray) (08/09/89)
In article <17357@bellcore.bellcore.com>, duncan@dduck.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) writes: > Has anyone ever worked where the offices are glass from about midway up all > around -- you see this in TV shows sometimes in police offices, etc. I've worked in a building where most of the interior walls were completely made of glass. Some people put shelves, etc. against the glass, which had the same effect as those in TV police offices. Sometimes, blinds or curtains on a office might be closed, but in general you could see the outside from almost everywhere. It was very pleasant, and offered both openness and privacy. I see little need for "visual privacy" in an office, since most people I know work in the nude fairly infrequently! If you think of software engineering (and indeed much of hardware engineering too) as a creative type of job, then it falls into the same sort of category as design studios, graphics shops, etc. Look at the type of buildings advertising agencies or recording studios occupy. A common mistake many US companies seem to make is to assume that computing industry technical people can be creative in the same sort of environment as office clerks. Of course, lack of awareness of the style of one's environment may be more a of a general, nationwide attribute anyway. A visit to most major furniture outlets will indicate a distinct lack of innovative styles, and a general blandness in the products on show. I'd like to install some track lighting in my office, like we had in London, but I can't find anything even vaguely similar here in Silly Con Valley, supposedly the innovative center of the universe. - John Murray (My own opinions, etc.)
reggie@dinsdale.nm.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) (08/09/89)
Hi Scott! In article <17357@bellcore.bellcore.com> duncan@ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) writes: >In article <6474@pdn.paradyne.com> reggie@dinsdale.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) writes: >>I have to disagree here. The privacy is not nice on occasion. It is >>essential when performing tasks that require thinking and concentration. >>*I* never had to close the door at Bellcore. >I've almost never closed the door (only for interviews of candidates or when >other people in the room wished it closed). And I never felt I had to due to >any noise. Well, I sorta bent the truth. There was a time where I had an interior office and the door was perpendicular to the hallway where the elevators were located. So naturally at the times of day when people would congregate in that hall to wait for the elevators (lunch time and quiting time) the noise level would be rather high. However, this was a unique situation. >> At other places I have worked there is *NO* >>escape from the noise. I also arrive at work very early in the morning so >>that I can get something done before the noise starts around 8AM. >Actually, I got into the habit of arriving early almost ANYWHERE that I worked >to get things done, not before noise began, but before meetings began and un- >scheduled tasks arose. I have always found interruptions by people actively >wanting my attention (rather than area noise) to be the biggest problem no >matter where I've worked. And I have worked in single office, double-office, >and open architecture places -- at least two different jobs with each kind of >layout. Right, that is also a major reason for arriving early. >>>I agree with the noise and the phone pick-up. I am not so sure that the of- >>>fice privacy comes without its down side. I have been to various HP loca- >>>tions (as well as those of many other companies). I do not feel that the >>>open style at HP was noisy or invaded my sense of "privacy" in any meaning- >>>ful way. >>I find this rather hard to believe. How long did this person work in any >>such environment. >Sorry, but this is my experience after 3.5 years and 1.5 years in open layouts >of this nature. For certain types of tasks, this may be true. However, once again if you are involved in anything that requires concentration or thinking I can not see how anyone could be in favor of such an arrangement. All it takes is one particularly noisy person to have an impact upon the performance of everyone. People type loud, cough and sneeze, talk constantly in a loud tone, etc...... All sorts of machinery emit noise, eg. PC printers. I have had moments where there are three of four different conversations taking place around my cube area. The noise levels are completely intollerable. >> there are some people who are not affected as much as others >>when it comes to noise. I don't know if this is conditioning or what. >>All I know is that I have worked in a variety of situations and having >>a room with walls is essential. At least *YOU* may choose when you want >>isolation. With cubicals, as many pointed out in the article you are at >>the mercy of those around you. >This is, to me, the important issue: the element of personal choice. So I >actually favor some sort of semi-private (if absolutely private is not feasible >due to space/cost) office arrangement to the open one even though I don't mind >the latter. I think natural light and the ability to choose the level of >noise/privacy is important. There was one AT&T facility I saw in Piscataway, I think it was Knightsbridge, where they piped white noise onto the floor to mask the noise. This had a major impact on noise in the cubical area. >Has anyone ever worked where the offices are glass from about midway up all >around -- you see this in TV shows sometimes in police offices, etc. I did >work in one place (the old DP shop) where they walled my boss off and the two >of us who programmed with such a set-up. Again, it never bothered me one way >or the other. Yes, I have. Typically the materials that the walls were made of were not sound absorbant. In addition, the floors were linoleum so that if the secretary in high heels came down the aisle you could hear her from a mile away. We also have five button hand sets which were constantly ringing. The terminals were the old Teletype 43 paper type. There were four or five people to a cubical. World War II surplus furniture, etc...... >Oh...one more comment. The major problem with the cubicles and distractions -- >again, just for me at least -- was that discussions overheard were not WORTH >listening in on in many cases. They were often of a more personal than techni- >cal nature, so the interruption wasn't worth the time it took. When discussion >was on a technical subject, it was -- for me again -- quite often worth it to >notice and join in. But which is the more frequent situation? Furthermore, if a technical discussion is taking place then perhaps the people involved in the discussion *don't* want your participation! I mean, time management may dicatate that people not get involved in each and every technical discussion that pops up during the course of a day. If I have a technical question, I know who the appropriate people are to get in touch with. I don't necessarily need all sorts of people joining in. Too many cooks spoil the broth. George W. Leach AT&T Paradyne (uunet|att)!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-133 Phone: 1-813-530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 FAX: 1-813-530-8224 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826
duncan@dduck.ctt.bellcore.com (Scott Duncan) (08/10/89)
Hi George...yes folks, George and I knew one another (over the phone and by email) when he worked at Bellcore. In article <6478@pdn.paradyne.com> reggie@dinsdale.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) writes: > > People type loud, cough and sneeze, talk constantly in a >loud tone, etc...... All sorts of machinery emit noise, eg. PC printers. An important point about my experiences: they were before PC's and locally attached printers became popular so there was no printer noise. Local cul- ture tended to reduce the amount of exposure to people standing around talk- ing much (or too loud) since people WERE sensitive to the noise level poten- tial. >>Has anyone ever worked where the offices are glass from about midway up all >>around > >Yes, I have. Typically the materials that the walls were made of were not >sound absorbant. In addition, the floors were linoleum so that if the >secretary in high heels came down the aisle you could hear her from a mile >away. We also have five button hand sets which were constantly ringing. >The terminals were the old Teletype 43 paper type. There were four or five >people to a cubical. World War II surplus furniture, etc...... My esperience at the DP shop was far better: decent walls, rugs, very little phone interruption. > Furthermore, if a technical >discussion is taking place then perhaps the people involved in the >discussion *don't* want your participation! I mean, time management >may dicatate that people not get involved in each and every technical >discussion that pops up during the course of a day. If I have a >technical question, I know who the appropriate people are to get in >touch with. I don't necessarily need all sorts of people joining in. >Too many cooks spoil the broth. Well, local culture also too care of that after a while. If you did NOT want people to pop into your conversations, you didn't stand up around other folks' cubicles! Like I said, I had very positive experiences in the open arrangements, but am very willing to believe that others have not. My only reason for posting was because I assumed there would be lots of negative reactions to open office architectrures and I knew I had positive experiences. So, for contrast, I thought it would be worthwhile to respond. >George W. Leach AT&T Paradyne >(uunet|att)!pdn!reggie Mail stop LG-133 >Phone: 1-813-530-2376 P.O. Box 2826 >FAX: 1-813-530-8224 Largo, FL USA 34649-2826 Speaking only for myself, of course, I am... Scott P. Duncan (duncan@ctt.bellcore.com OR ...!bellcore!ctt!duncan) (Bellcore, 444 Hoes Lane RRC 1H-210, Piscataway, NJ 08854) (201-699-3910 (w) 609-737-2945 (h))
barkley@unc.cs.unc.edu (Matthew Barkley) (08/11/89)
In response to an e-mail inquiry, the reply to which bounced: I had posted a note about some "near-daylight" tubes called Vitalite, made by Duro-Test Corporation. Duro-Test has a subsidiary that is their primary wholesaler. It's Duro-Lite Lamps, Inc. 1050 Wall Street West Lyndhurst NJ 07071 (201) 935-4030 They will probably refer you to a distributor or salesman in your area. As I recall from several years ago, that's what happened to me. To repeat, I really don't know if they helped. You can be sure they won't hurt, but a 700% premium is a lot to pay for a "maybe." P.S. A good place to look up this kind of thing is in Dun's Million Dollar Directory, available at most libraries. Matt Barkley barkley@cs.unc.edu Any opinions expressed are not necessarily shared by anyone else, and may not even be my own. How an organization can have an opinion is beyond me.
shap@bunker.UUCP (Joseph D. Shapiro) (08/12/89)
In article <6478@pdn.paradyne.com> reggie@dinsdale.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) writes: > There was one AT&T facility I saw in Piscataway, I think it was >Knightsbridge, where they piped white noise onto the floor to mask the >noise. This had a major impact on noise in the cubical area. In "Peopleware", DeMarco and Lister assert that white noise and other noise-vs-noise techniques such as music, etc, occupy the creative side of the brain, leading to very mechanical solutions. -- __--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__--__ Joe Shapiro "My other car is a turbo... ISC-Bunker Ramo ...too." {decvax,yale,philabs,oliveb}!bunker!shap