dsill@ark1.nswc.navy.mil (Dave Sill) (09/13/89)
I haven't received what I'd call overwhelming response to previous requests for info to this newsgroup, but I'm still hoping... Could somebody give me a nutshell explanation of how fonts work with PostScript, not from a PS programmer's perspective, but from a printer user's point-of-view? What happens when a PS program requests a font that the printer doesn't know about? What are the "standard" PS fonts? Are they all copyrighted by Adobe? What are the differences between built-in and add-on fonts? Can I add Adobe fonts to a non-Adobe PostScript-clone? Most PS printers come with either 13 or 35 fonts. What are they? Is it possible to have one printer that can handle any PS file, regardless of the fonts used, perhaps by substituting for unavailable fonts? Thanks. -- Dave Sill (dsill@relay.nswc.navy.mil)
amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) (09/14/89)
In article <119@ark1.nswc.navy.mil>, dsill@ark1.nswc.navy.mil (Dave Sill) writes: > Could somebody give me a nutshell explanation of how fonts work with > PostScript, not from a PS programmer's perspective, but from a printer > user's point-of-view? Well, I'll give it s shot... > What happens when a PS program requests a font that the printer > doesn't know about? This depends on which particular printer you are using. In particular, the "findfont" operator is often customized by printer manufacturers in order to support things like loading fonts in from disk, and so on. On an Apple LaserWriter (and many other printers), the printer will send back a message and return "Courier". The PostScript program will continue to execute, but all of the text until the next "findfont" or "setfont" will show up in Courier. Other printers may substitute different fonts, or signal a PostScript error. > What are the "standard" PS fonts? As far as I know, there is no official "standard set." However, the usual minimum set is: Times-Roman Times-Italic Times-Bold Times-BoldItalic Helvetica Helvetica-Oblique Helvetica-Bold Helvetica-BoldOblique Courier Courier-Oblique Courier-Bold Courier-BoldOblique Symbol This corresponds to the fonts that are built into the original Apple LaserWriter. > Are they all copyrighted by Adobe? The PostScript programs that draw the fonts are. The character outlines themselves are usually either licensed from a type company such as ITC or Mergenthaler, or proprietary to Adobe (the Stone typefaces, for instance). > What are the differences between built-in and add-on fonts? Nothing. The built-in fonts are in ROM, and so you can't update them when Adobe releases new versions, but aside from that, fonts is fonts. > Can I add Adobe fonts to a non-Adobe PostScript-clone? Not that I know of. There are companies that claim to have reverse-engineered Adobe's font technology, but as far as I know none of them have put such a product on the market, out of legal considerations if nothing else. > Most PS printers come with either 13 or 35 fonts. What are they? The 13 are usually the ones I listed above. The 35-font set usually corresponds to the font set in the Apple LaserWriter Plus, which also includes all four style variations of: Avant Garde Bookman Palatino New Century Schoolbook Helvetica Narrow as well as ZapfChancery-MediumItalic ZapfDingbats for a total of 22 additional fonts. > Is it possible to have one printer that can handle any PS file, > regardless of the fonts used, perhaps by substituting for unavailable > fonts? Sure. That's what the LaserWriter does. Hope this helps, -- Amanda Walker amanda@intercon.com
lemay@lorelei.Sun.COM (Laura Lemay) (09/14/89)
>> Are they all copyrighted by Adobe? > >The PostScript programs that draw the fonts are. The character outlines >themselves are usually either licensed from a type company such as ITC or >Mergenthaler, or proprietary to Adobe (the Stone typefaces, for instance). Well, close, but no cigar. The outlines themselves are not licesned, the NAME is. The outline fonts themselves are drawn by Adobe as well. (I believe....I could be totally wrong, but this is what a graphic design expert told me once.) Due to a glitch in copywright laws, and the fact that most existing type- faces have been around for hundreds of years, typefaces cannot be copywrighted. Only the names can. Adobe could have re-drawn Times or Helvetica, but they would have had to call them something else in order to publish them. (lots of little bitmap companies do just this). By licensing the names, the can draw thier own versions of the existing fonts, and have them get the recognition of that name in the design and publishing worlds. ITC has its own line of fonts using thier drawings of the typeface, which sometimes can differ a great deal from Adobe's drawings. ITC Garamond tends to be a lot closer to the original Garamond (a little rounder, with larger spaces in the closed of sections of the "B" and "e", and thier Times Bold is a MUCH better rendering than Adobe's is. ITC markets its fonts with the ITC label in front because Adobe got the real names marketed first :-) Just a random note from an amatuer graphic designer... -Laura Lemay lemay%lorelei@sun.com Redhead. Drummer. Geek.
clh@tacitus.tfic.bc.ca (Chris Hermansen) (09/14/89)
>>> Are they all copyrighted by Adobe? >> >>The PostScript programs that draw the fonts are. The character outlines >>themselves are usually either licensed from a type company such as ITC or >>Mergenthaler, or proprietary to Adobe (the Stone typefaces, for instance). > >Well, close, but no cigar. The outlines themselves are not licesned, the >NAME is. The outline fonts themselves are drawn by Adobe as well. > >Due to a glitch in copywright laws, and the fact that most existing type- >faces have been around for hundreds of years, typefaces cannot be copywrighted. Gee, sorry to be a bit thick here, but I'm more confused than ever on this. Suppose I do the following: - buy a PostScript printer - write a PostScript program and run it on said printer, the results of which are Times character outlines printed on paper - digitize those outlines for use in some other program, calling the font QQSV - use that other program to make a bunch of sales brochures - offer to give those digitized outlines to a friend down the street with the same other program - sell those outlines to a customer for his own use. Have all/some/none of the above infringed on Adobe's (or anyone elses') copyright? What about the printer manufacturer? What about the "derivative products" and "own use" sections of the copyright law? What if I used those outlines to create a bunch of rubber stamps, instead of involving computers? And one last comment/question: the status page that gets emitted by my current PostScript printer states the Times, Helvetica, and Palatino font families are registered trademarks of Linotype Corp, a bunch more belong to ITC, and that PostScript is, of course, Adobe's. However, stuff like Courier and New Century Schoolbook don't have any (R), (C), or TM next to them. What's going on here? Clarification will be most appreciated. Chris Hermansen Timberline Forest Inventory Consultants Voice: 1 604 733 0731 302 - 958 West 8th Avenue FAX: 1 604 733 0634 Vancouver B.C. CANADA uunet!ubc-cs!van-bc!tacitus!clh V5Z 1E5
greid@adobe.com (Glenn Reid) (09/15/89)
In article <124647@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> lemay@sun.UUCP (Laura Lemay) writes: >>The PostScript programs that draw the fonts are. The character outlines >>themselves are usually either licensed from a type company such as ITC or >>Mergenthaler, or proprietary to Adobe (the Stone typefaces, for instance). > >Well, close, but no cigar. The outlines themselves are not licensed, the >NAME is. The outline fonts themselves are drawn by Adobe as well. >(I believe....I could be totally wrong, but this is what a graphic design >expert told me once.) Actually the earlier posting is correct. We license the outlines from Linotype, ITC, URW, Varityper, and others. The outlines typically come in a format that is not PostScript (URW's Ikarus format, for example), and we have to do some data-conversion to get them into PostScript outline format. We also bring them up on a workstation screen (Suns, in fact) to make sure the outlines are working correctly and to do some clean-up of the data which is sometimes required. We also apply "hints" to the fonts for good rendering on a digital grid. But we are generally very, very careful not to alter the design or the metrics of the characters except under very special circumstances where we have to make some infinitessimal changes. Now you can flame me if you want and point out some of the early bugs in our fonts, but the spirit of what I say is still true, give or take a little human error. And also, the Times and Helvetica fonts that most people look at were done practically by hand back in 1984 or 1985 before much of the sophisticaed software was in place, so they are a teeny bit more crufty than the gleaming new fonts that roll off the assembly line today :-) >Due to a glitch in copywright laws, and the fact that most existing type- >faces have been around for hundreds of years, typefaces cannot be copywrighted. >Only the names can. That is true, unfortunately for us all. > Adobe could have re-drawn Times or Helvetica, but they >would have had to call them something else in order to publish them. (lots >of little bitmap companies do just this). By licensing the names, the >can draw thier own versions of the existing fonts, and have them get >the recognition of that name in the design and publishing worlds. Yes, licensing the names is important, both for our reputation and for the preservation of the type designs and to give the designers their due. But again, we also license the typefaces, not just the names. >ITC has its own line of fonts using thier drawings of the typeface, which >sometimes can differ a great deal from Adobe's drawings. ITC Garamond tends >to be a lot closer to the original Garamond (a little rounder, with larger >spaces in the closed of sections of the "B" and "e", and thier Times Bold >is a MUCH better rendering than Adobe's is. ITC markets its fonts with >the ITC label in front because Adobe got the real names marketed first :-) Adobe's Times-Bold was licensed from Linotype. Our first Garamond, the one with which you are probably familiar, was licensed directly from ITC (the copyright notice is even inside the font, if you want to look). We didn't redesign them or redraw them. The differences you see are most likely artifacts of digital rendering and low resolution than they are differences in the font outlines, but I'm guessing. It is possible that there are some slight differences in the original ITC design and the one that came out the back end of our software. We have, however, recently done an Adobe Original interpretation of Garamond called Adobe Garamond, which is available from us (as of very recently). I'm no expert, but I'm told it is very true to the original foundry designs. I hope this helps. I don't quite remember what the original question was any more, so this may be further afield than necessary :-) Glenn Reid Adobe Systems