chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/22/84)
(Look out, Martha! He's at it again!!!)
In recent weeks we have seen a number of requests for various science
oriented topics. All of them (so far) have been made in good faith,
although discussion of these topics in other places has been lacking.
In Yet Another Attempt To Streamline News (YAATSN), I have the following
suggestion:
Let us create a general purpose science topic for all of those imaginary
science topics can have a place to live until they either die or prove
their worth. I suggest we call this science based topic 'net.science' (wow,
how esoteric!). This might even get the evolution/creation garbage out of
net.misc.
I shall even take this a step further. I now suggest that, assuming the
creation of net.science, we take all science oriented topics and make them
sub-topics of net.science. This means that we would have a structure such
as:
net.science
.astro
.bio
.columbia
.math
.med
.physics
.space
Astute readers will notice that net.astro.expert seems to be missing. Well,
it is, and it might take a hint from this. I think this idea will lend a
greater symmetry to the net and give us a better grouping to related
subjects. People don't lose anything on this either. The sub topic setup
seem to work nicely where it has been implemented so far, so I see no
reason not to extend this.
While I'm at it, there are a few other suggestions that I think might be
reasonable (at least one of these is included simply to allow those that
feel they have to flame at me every time I show up on the net a reason to.
Which one it is is left as an exercise to the reader...)
net.puzzle and net.chess should both be moved under net.games or
net.rec. puzzle probably belongs with rec and chess with games, but I'm
easy.
Believe it or not, I'm willing to support the creation of
net.micro.hp41 IF it is created to replace one of the existing but
essentially unused micro subtopics. Not to give you any hints or
anything, but I might check into nuking net.micro.zx, all you hpers...
net.tv.da should die. soon. please. I love these temporary newsgroups.
(please not that the previous sentence should be read in a very
sarcastic voice, and readers should attempt to minimize moving their
lips while doing so to simulate a Humphrey Bogart impression (or simply
to get practice))
Nuke Wobegon! Nuke Wobegon! (I am putting on my asbestos gloves. Not
that this is the topic for people to flame at me over or anything...)
Finally, I am considering creating the Nuke of the Month club. To join, all
you would need to do is mail me your suggestions as to topics we can nuke.
Then, I will tally these up, and whenever I am feeling particularly
masochistic, I will publish them and make suggestions. I will then leave
town for a few days. Maybe if we keep this up long enough, something might
actually happen....
naaaaahhhhhhhhhh..
chuq
--
From the house at Pooh Corner: Chuq 'Nuke Wobegon' Von Rospach
{fortune,menlo70}!nsc!chuqui Have you hugged your Pooh today?
Yo, Ho! Yo, Ho! A pirates life for me...alb@alice.UUCP (02/23/84)
The idea is good, but renaming newsgroups simply does not work. We have tried before. Remember net.trivia? Believe it or not, but I still get the odd net.trivia article now and then.
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (02/23/84)
Why have a separate newsgroup for the HP41 - one special purpose micro? What about the HP 150, and the 9000 series? HP makes lots of micros. Why not just net.micro.hp? Mark
ntt@dciem.UUCP (Mark Brader) (02/23/84)
Net.science.* is a great idea, but let's make it net.sci.*. Mark Brader
bch@unc.UUCP (Byron Howes ) (02/23/84)
Yes. Let's create net.science.* Makes much more sense then having
these disembodied newsgroups crawling about.
--
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
Byron Howes
UNC - Chapel Hill
({decvax,akgua}!mcnc!unc!bch)ka@hou3c.UUCP (Kenneth Almquist) (02/24/84)
Adam's is correct in pointing out the difficulty in renaming groups. The solution seems to be to modify the news software to support renaming better. For example, a "rename" control message along the lines of "rename net.records net.music" could be added. This would tell inews to convert any occurances of net.records to net.music. I believe that this would solve most of the problems with renaming. Kenneth Almquist
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (02/25/84)
Renaming is even harder than that. Suppose that a rename
control message were added to 2.11. Now what do we do about
(1) messages currently circulating around the net with the old name?
(2) messages in the (new) spool dir containing the old name in
the headers (which will be used for followups)?
(3) people with the old name in their .newsrc file?
(4) documentation that describes the old name?
(5) people who "know" about the old name in their heads?
Markka@hou3c.UUCP (Kenneth Almquist) (02/27/84)
I wasn't too explicit in my previous message. In reply to Mark's questions: Suppose that a rename control message were added to 2.11. Now what do we do about (1) messages currently circulating around the net with the old name? When they reach a site that has received the control message, the group on the article is changed. (I know that fiddling with headers is a risky business.) (3) people with the old name in their .newsrc file? It is probably not possible to move articles that have already been installed in the spool directory to the new group. The old newsgroup could stay around for a couple of weeks after the rename control message was sent out, and then be removed with a rmgroup control message. (2) messages in the (new) spool dir containing the old name in the headers (which will be used for followups)? These would be mapped into the new newsgroup name, probably by inews. (Note that the mapping table need not grow indefinitely; the mapping could be deleted when the old newsgroup was deleted. (4) documentation that describes the old name? (5) people who "know" about the old name in their heads? These are problems. Adam's list tracks created and deleted newsgroups, so that people who rely on that document will have up to date information. I'm agree that a "rename" control message would not make renaming groups completely painless, but it would be a major help. Kenneth Almquist
chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/28/84)
The idea is good, but renaming newsgroups simply does not work.
We have tried before. Remember net.trivia? Believe it or not,
but I still get the odd net.trivia article now and then.
I agree that there are going to be transitional problems. There are in any
change (just talk to the people at ATT if you don't believe me) of the
magnitude I have suggested. The easiest way to fight it, however, is with a
coordinated attack of information combined with having system
administrators pressure their neighbors to conform. It might even be
possible to build up some program that we could distribute with a new
active file for those administrators who are too lazy to either turn off
MANUALLY or do them (realistically, you should either be willing to trust
the net or invest some time in it. Unfortunately, there are a number of
administrators who do neither, and therefore make the lives of the rest of
the sites that much worse...). If I didn't think it could be done, I
wouldn't have suggested it. It really isn't that big a deal, if we can
simply get some cooperation from people.
chuq
--
From the Citadel of the Autarch: Chuqui the Plaid
{fortune,menlo70}!nsc!chuqui P.S. Nuke Wobegon!
Don't dream it, be it!chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/28/84)
The optimal way of handling it would be to have software in news that does
for messages what symbolic links do for 4.2 so we can simply repoint things
to a new topic. Realistically, what we are talking about is a complicated
changeover period where we create the new topics and scream at people until
they start using them, and finally remove the old ones after the transition
seems relatively stable. I would assume that we could do this in a period
of about a month if we really wanted to, and if we used net.general and
net.announce to make sure that the people and administrators know whats
happening and what needs to be done (unfortunately, a significant
percentange of net administrators don't seem to read net.news.all, so we
are going to have to inundate the net to get to them... *sigh*)
This is not going to be easy, so we are going to have to be very careful
about making sure that it is done right (if, of course, it is decided to be
done at all. For once, I am refusing to make assumptions... (*gasp*)).
chuq
--
From the Citadel of the Autarch: Chuqui the Plaid
{fortune,menlo70}!nsc!chuqui P.S. Nuke Wobegon!
Don't dream it, be it!