Elefante@RADC-MULTICS.arpa (06/20/86)
I ordered a disk drive from PC Network (Chicago) in mid April. I was told the drive was in stock and that I should receive it shortly (even though the order-taker is obliged to state that delivery time is 2 - 3 weeks). After 3 weeks I called and asked about my order and was told it was cancelled because my credit card balance had not been sufficient at the time they called the order in (this was a fluke because of several factors, nonetheless I later found it to be true). I was unhappy that they would just cancel the order and not even notify me by mail about the situation. In any case, I didn't dispute the cancellation and decided I would order a drive from someone else. Low and behold, 5 1/2 weeks later I find a package on my doorstep with a *backorderd* disk drive from PC Network. Without my authorization, they went ahead and used my credit card to pay for the cancelled order. Mistake or no, this is rotten business practice and I caution others to be careful about this kind of thing. *As a rule* PC Network is also incredibly slow in delivery and you can't even begin to depend on their projected delivery dates because they will tell you something is in stock when it isn't. So if you're in a hurry, you might consider looking elsewhere. By the way, PC Network keeps your credit card number in their computer system (obviously), even after your membership has lapsed. I've instructed them to purge both my credit card number and my membership. Don Elefante
magik@chinet.UUCP (Ben Liberman) (06/24/86)
[] I bought a printer from PC network 2 1/2 years ago and did not renew my membership after it expired. I received a mass mailing from them today that said: Urgent! If you do not wish to renew your PC Network membership: Fill out and return the attached post paid card. .... Your membership will be renewed automatically. No response is necessary. ... The membershop fee will be charged to your credit card. Please clip and mail this post paid card if you do not wish to renew. Is this legal? ---------------------- Ben Liberman ihnp4!chinet!magik or ihnp4!homebru!magik
kamath@reed.UUCP (06/26/86)
In article <386@chinet.UUCP> magik@chinet.UUCP (Ben Liberman) writes: >[] > Your membership will be renewed automatically. No response is > necessary. ... The membershop fee will be charged to your credit > card. Please clip and mail this post paid card if you do not wish > to renew. > >Is this legal? > >---------------------- >Ben Liberman > >ihnp4!chinet!magik or ihnp4!homebru!magik You bet it is! How do you think the "book of the month club" et al. make money? They all do it, at least all that I've come in contact with. (Yeah, I used to be a member of "The Science Fiction/Fantasy Book Club." Since I didn't have a credit card, they billed me. I told them 3 times I wanted out. Then I just ignored everything they sent me. I'm still waiting for a collection agency...). A friend of mine figured out how to get these groups to pay attention when they won't quite...he took one of there "no stamp neccessary" cards, taped it to a brick and mailed it. Needless to say, they stopped. I wrote "deceased" three times on the record club thingies they sent me. I hear a somewhat more legal way to get rid of them is to write a letter informing them your are no longer going to be a member and will not pay for any merchandise they send from now on, have two copies made of the letter, have them noterized, and send them a copy. From then on, anything they send you, you can keep. Sorry about the grammer, I just spent 4 hours in a lab over a breadboard. I'm sorta punchy :-) ________________________________________________________________________________ Sean Kamath UUCP {ihnp4,decvax,ucbcad,hplabs}!tektronix!reed!kamath US Snail: Box 395 Reed College, Portland, OR 97202 (503) 239-7458
tim@mwhhlaw.UUCP (Tim Hollingsworth) (06/26/86)
> [] > I bought a printer from PC network 2 1/2 years ago and did not renew my > membership after it expired. I received a mass mailing from them today that > said: > Urgent! If you do not wish to renew your PC Network membership: > Fill out and return the attached post paid card. .... > > Your membership will be renewed automatically. No response is > necessary. ... The membershop fee will be charged to your credit > card. Please clip and mail this post paid card if you do not wish > to renew. > > Is this legal? > Probably not but I would send in tne postcard. -- Tim Hollingsworth ihnp4!inuxc!mwhhlaw!tim
mhg@mitre-bedford.arpa (Mark H. Granoff) (06/27/86)
With regard to ordering by mail, I thought readers might like to hear a success story. Last April, I decided to replace by computer system with an AT&T 6300. After searching locally for the best price (and finding the best one to be about $3200), I hunted through magazines for the best mail order price and found one. The outfit I found was The Computer Discount Warehouse in Illinois. Since the only thing I had ever bought previously by mail was a printer for considerably less money, I went through several gyrations to determine if they were "on the level" or just out to rip me off. (I called the Illinois Better Business Bureau, the Illinois State Department, and a the outfit's bank (the largest in Illinois)). When I was finally satisfied that they would actually send me some merchandise, I sent them a certified check. Within 10 (business) days of sending out the check, I had my system. It's worth noting that I payed $2100 for the following: AT&T 6300 w/ 640k memory (socketed) 1 20mb Seagate HD w/ Western Digital Controller 1 360k Half-height floppy. Parallel Printer Cable (That price included shipping, too!) The upshot here is that I was very pleased to get such fast delivery. At the time, everything I bought was "in stock and ready to ship." I remain pleased with my purchase and have had no problems. Mark H. Granoff (mhg@mitre-bedford)
magik@chinet.UUCP (Ben Liberman) (06/28/86)
>> ... I received a mass mailing from them today that >> said: >> Urgent! If you do not wish to renew your PC Network membership: >> Fill out and return the attached post paid card. .... >> >> Your membership will be renewed automatically. No response is >> necessary. ... The membershop fee will be charged to your credit >> card. Please clip and mail this post paid card if you do not wish >> to renew. >> >> Is this legal? > > Probably not but I would send in tne postcard. > ihnp4!inuxc!mwhhlaw!tim I checked with my lawyer who said that there is much precedent on "implied consent" and that they are way out on a limb. (got a saw on ya' buddy? :-) I thought that I'd be nice and let them know that they where setting themselves up for a class action suit. Were they gratefull? Noooooo. "Gee...we wouldn't do something like that if it were illegal" and some stock phrases were all that I got for my time and effort. <ooops! uh.....flame off>
hrs@homxb.UUCP (H.SILBIGER) (06/30/86)
Re: Automatic renewals legality. Whenever you get a postcard, letter, etc. that says something like: "If you do not return this by xxxx we will send you, charge you, etc, you are not bound by it. Positive action has to be taken for an agreement to be legal. Otherwise I coukd send you a note saying: If I don't hear from you by xx, you will have bought a pound of gummi-bears for $1,000,000. If you in your orginal membership agreement with PC-Network agreed to a clause that specified autoamtic renewal, the postcard would be legal. If you did not, and they charged your account, it would be theft. Many book and record clubs use the postcard approach. If you get a shipment, you are under no obligation to buy it. You can either stick it in a mailbox with return to sender, or put it away in a closet without using it. If they ask for money, tell them that you have been storing these packages for them, and charge them storage fees. Herman Silbiger ihnp4!batavier!hrs