glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) (05/01/90)
In article <1195@chinacat.Unicom.COM> woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) writes: >In article <2501@ariel.unm.edu>, stone@hydra.unm.edu (Andrew Stone) writes: >> In article <1183@chinacat.Unicom.COM> woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) writes: >> > >> >> If you purchase Adobe's Sonata font, this would suffice for a treble: >> >> /Sonata findfont 90 scalefont setfont 10 40 moveto (&)show >> >> >> ... but I guess that is too easy ;-) Actually, it is a beautiful, although >> crazily bounded font. >> > >No, it is to expensive. Font companies tend to screw you to the wall with >prices that are total out of reason in relation to the fonts utility. Now >I know that Adobe put a lot of money and development into these fonts, but >so did Cassidy and Greene, and Century Software, but thier fonts are reasonable >Last I checked Century Software fonts were about 29.00 or so, vs something >around or over 200.00 for Adobe fonts. Fonts should not cost 200.00 That >is pure rape , pillage and plunder. $40-50 maybe, $20-30 reasonable, >$50-100 Possibly depen on lots of stuff. $200.00 unconciousable (sic). If you don't like somebody's product, or you don't think it is worth the price, then don't buy it. Products sell for what people will pay for them, and an awful lot of people buy a lot of fonts and LIKE it. I don't think that calls for words like "screw" and "rape". Unconscionable, indeed. It's funny you single out Adobe, since Linotype, Monotype, Varityper, and all the other font companies sell fonts, too, and at similar prices. I hesitate to say that the price difference reflects the quality of the fonts, but there is something valuable about fonts directly from the traditional font foundries, as compared to the many "interpretations" that are available from other vendors. Actually, I guess it's not so surprising that you singled out Adobe in your diatribe. What is it between you and Adobe, anyway? I happen to have played a small part in the design of the Sonata font, which biases me slightly, but I think it's beautiful and well worth the $98 (or whatever) that they charge for it. Sheesh. Just another guy's opinion, Glenn Reid
roger@grenada.UUCP (Roger Corman) (05/02/90)
>> If you purchase Adobe's Sonata font, this would suffice for a treble: >> >> /Sonata findfont 90 scalefont setfont 10 40 moveto (&)show >No, it is to expensive. Font companies tend to screw you to the wall with >prices that are total out of reason in relation to the fonts utility. Now >I know that Adobe put a lot of money and development into these fonts, but >so did Cassidy and Greene, and Century Software, but thier fonts are reasonable >Last I checked Century Software fonts were about 29.00 or so, vs something >around or over 200.00 for Adobe fonts. Fonts should not cost 200.00 That >is pure rape , pillage and plunder. $40-50 maybe, $20-30 reasonable, >$50-100 Possibly depen on lots of stuff. $200.00 unconciousable (sic). Actually the Sonata font can be purchased from mail order houses for $61 (Mac Zone, for example) which seems like a reasonable price to me. It is indeed a nice font, and is compatible with many Macintosh music notation packages. Roger Corman Island Graphics Santa Rosa, CA
woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) (05/02/90)
In article <1990May1.034446.27853@ico.isc.com>, rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: > woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) writes: > > stone@hydra.unm.edu (Andrew Stone) writes: > > > Sonata is only $95, and it's one of the more expensive Adobe fonts. > > > Typical Adobe font prices are $185 for the usual matched set of four, or > $145 for some of the mix'n'match sets of three decorative faces. That's > just under $50/font, and given the quality of the fonts, I think it's a > bargain. (If you're using them to make money, the quality matters.) Wrong. That is 1 font, 4 faces. You pay $185.00 not <$50.00. And yes, quality matters. Currently I have no comercial use for the fonts, I certainly could use Sonota for some Musical typesetting that I am doing for me, but can't justify $95.00 for that. Cheers Woody
BPorter@world.std.com (Barry M Porter) (05/03/90)
<<Wrong. That is 1 font, 4 faces. You pay $185.00 not <$50.00.>> Sorry, but its 1 family, 4 faces, with each size and style of each face making up 1 font..but for digital type, you can call each style a single font...Barry
rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (05/03/90)
woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) writes: > ...rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: > > Sonata is only $95, and it's one of the more expensive Adobe fonts. ... > > Typical Adobe font prices are $185 for the usual matched set of four, or > > $145 for some of the mix'n'match sets of three decorative faces. That's > > just under $50/font,... ... > Wrong. That is 1 font, 4 faces. You pay $185.00 not <$50.00. (Wrong yerself!:-) What we have here is apparently only a terminology problem; Woody's got things swapped. The term "font" is not more general than "face". In conventional usage, a "face" was the set of shapes while a "font" was a face at a particular size. With scalable fonts, the distinction tends to get lost; although we speak of buying (a license for) a font, we really mean buying a face. The term "family" is approximately the correct one for what Woody and I are talking about costing $185. A family is a set of faces, normally designed by one person/group, given a common trademark name, having a stylistic consistency throughout variations in boldness, slant, condensing, etc. (In terms of generality, then, font<=face<family<style.) Example: You can get the Palatino _family_, which we'll say consists of four _faces_ - those being Palatino-Roman, Palatino-Bold, Palatino-Italic, and Palatino-BoldItalic. For each face, you can scale it as you wish to get a particular _font_. (But, as I noted above, the face/font dis- tinction is fuzzy, and getting fuzzier. I suggest you don't nitpick at someone who says he's buying a "font" instead of a "face" unless you're into tendentious pedantry.) You don't always license a complete family, though...take Helvetica, which at last count had eleventy-seven faces. You license some consistent, useful subset. Of course, none of this changes the basic issue - which is that Woody thinks that Adobe's prices are too high and a few other folk don't. But I thought a note on terminology might save future confusion. -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!rcd (303)449-2870 ...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.
woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) (05/05/90)
In article <173@heaven.woodside.ca.us>, glenn@heaven.woodside.ca.us (Glenn Reid) writes: > In article <1195@chinacat.Unicom.COM> woody@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Woody Baker @ Eagle Signal) writes: > the price, then don't buy it. Products sell for what people will pay > for them, and an awful lot of people buy a lot of fonts and LIKE it. > I don't think that calls for words like "screw" and "rape". Unconscionable, > It's funny you single out Adobe, since Linotype, Monotype, Varityper, and > all the other font companies sell fonts, too, and at similar prices. The same goes for Linotype, Monotype, and Varityper. NOTE: I said font Companies. Adobe happens to sell Postscript fonts. I don't know about the other companies. Yes, fonts are worth what one is willing to pay for them, and I think that Sonota is a beautiful font. It is fairly specialized, and thus has a rather limited market in comparison to say Helvetica. I maintain that fonts should be far less expensive than they are. I don't care WHO sells them. Cheers Woody > your diatribe. What is it between you and Adobe, anyway? Absolutely nothing. I have exactly the same attitude tword IBM, COMPAQ, and a whole host of companies. I have already mentioned things I don't like about Adobe, and am NOT going to do so here. > > I happen to have played a small part in the design of the Sonata font, > which biases me slightly, but I think it's beautiful and well worth the > $98 (or whatever) that they charge for it. $50-100 is perhaps acceptable and justifieable for a font with such a small market. However, it is out of my budget range for what I need to do.