cld@kd4nc.UUCP (Charles D'Englere) (10/08/90)
Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript
cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the
cheapest of all the PostScript cartridges sold ( I can not
image why :-) ). All the ads only talk about the HP LJ II
and not the III. Adobe also offers and additional font
cartridge to use with the PostScript cartridge.
Thanks,
Charles
--
C. D'Englere Consulting UUCP: {...!gatech,!emory}!kd4nc!cld
Charles L. D'Englere Phone: 404+3259074
1409 Bronze Leaf Ct. Stone Mountain, GA 30083jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Jefferson ) (10/08/90)
In article <5612@kd4nc.UUCP> cld@kd4nc.UUCP (Charles D'Englere) writes: >Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript >cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the >cheapest of all the PostScript cartridges sold ( I can not >image why :-) ). All the ads only talk about the HP LJ II >and not the III. Adobe also offers and additional font >cartridge to use with the PostScript cartridge. According to HP costomer service (of course they are the _last_ word :-) the _Adobe_ cartridge is only for the (discontinued) II series printers. For the IId/III printers you need the _HP_ cartridge, which is an implementation of true adobe postscript. It seems that HP and Adobe are working closely together in this arrangement, so that we will not be seeing an Adobe produced cartridge to compete with the HP cartridge. _begin opinion_ The two cartidges are essentially the same right? So why is adobe's <$300 while HP's is like $700? Marketing. HP's price is clearly set to make the HP/Poscript/Appletalk package just a little cheaper than the Apple offering. They are not going to sell many more packages if they cut the price another $300-400. _end opinion_ by the way, I too am eagerly awaiting a good review of either product. . -- -george @sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
hartzell@boulder.Colorado.EDU (George Hartzell) (10/09/90)
In article <5612@kd4nc.UUCP>, cld@kd4nc (Charles D'Englere) writes: >Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript >cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the >cheapest of all the PostScript cartridges sold ( I can not >image why :-) ). All the ads only talk about the HP LJ II >and not the III. Adobe also offers and additional font >cartridge to use with the PostScript cartridge. > I've been using it to handle TeX, troff (via Transcript), and hand coded PostScript from UNIX machines (via lpr). No problems. g. George Hartzell (303) 492-4535 MCD Biology, University of Colorado-Boulder, Boulder, CO 80309 hartzell@Boulder.Colorado.EDU ..!ncar!boulder!hartzell
james968@walt.cc.utexas.edu (James Hammett) (10/09/90)
>_begin opinion_ >The two cartidges are essentially the same right? So why is adobe's ><$300 while HP's is like $700? > >just a little cheaper than the Apple offering. They are not going >to sell many more packages if they cut the price another $300-400. >_end opinion_ > >-george @sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu To use PostScript for your hardware you need to pay Adobe for a licence HP needs to pay Adobe for a license for its PostScript Cartridge. Adobe doesn't need to pay for a license, so it can undercut everyone elses price (specificly the true PostScript cartridge. james968@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
schuster@cup.portal.com (Michael Alan Schuster) (10/09/90)
>Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript >cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the >cheapest of all the PostScript cartridges sold ( I can not >image why :-) ). All the ads only talk about the HP LJ II >and not the III. Adobe also offers and additional font >cartridge to use with the PostScript cartridge. The ads are correct. The Adobe cartridge is designed for, and works ONLY with the "LaserJet Series II". Period. NOT the IID. NOT the IIP. NOT the III, and NOT the IIID. Just the Series II. Period. Hewlett-Packard makes a PostScript cartridge for the aforementioned non-Series II printers, priced at $799. It is an official Adobe-licensed product.
mark@gizzmo.UUCP (mark hilliard) (10/09/90)
In article <34656@cup.portal.com> schuster@cup.portal.com (Michael Alan Schuster) writes: >>Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript >The ads are correct. The Adobe cartridge is designed for, and works ONLY >with the "LaserJet Series II". Period. NOT the IID. NOT the IIP. NOT the III, >and NOT the IIID. Just the Series II. Period. Sorry, but you are mistaken, the HP Adobe Postscript cartridge that I have (2 ea) works only on the HP series IIP, IID and series III. The cartridges list for around $800.00, but can be found for $450.00. I have heard that HP offers a cartridge for the series II also, but that because it uses a older processor board that it is not compatable with the newer releases for the IIP, IID and III. I am very satisified with them, and have tested them against a Apple 2NTX. They are fast, and more importantly, they work. The part number for IIP, IID and III support: HP33439P You need 2 meg of printer memory to use it, but HP says that by adding more memory, you can make it faster. I have heard nothing of additional cartridges for more fonts, but the documentation says that Adobe downloadable fonts work just fine! -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | Mark Hilliard, N2HHR | AWK is not just a | | Fax 315-986-5882 | LANGUAGE | | mark@gizzmo.kodak.com | It is a way of LIFE! |
hv@uwasa.fi (Harri Valkama LAKE) (10/09/90)
In article <34656@cup.portal.com> schuster@cup.portal.com (Michael Alan Schuster) writes: >The ads are correct. The Adobe cartridge is designed for, and works ONLY >with the "LaserJet Series II". Period. NOT the IID. NOT the IIP. NOT the III, >and NOT the IIID. Just the Series II. Period. > >Hewlett-Packard makes a PostScript cartridge for the aforementioned non-Series >II printers, priced at $799. It is an official Adobe-licensed product. BTW, do we have experiences about OEM Postscript cartridges and HP Laserjet III LocalTalk module. I've come across that PCPI ImageScript (which was very much cheaper than HP's; at least here in Finland) DON'T WORK with the LocalTalk module. I am very confused and wonder why not. I think Postscript module shouldn't have anything to do with network support. Is this HP's trick to sell it's own overpriced cartridges. -- == Harri Valkama, University of Vaasa, Finland ================================ P.O. Box 700, 65101 VAASA, Finland (tel:+358 61 248426 fax:+358 61 248465) hv@uwasa.fi hv@nic.funet.fi hkv@flame.uwasa.fi harri.valkama@wmac00.uwasa.fi Moderating at chyde.uwasa.fi (128.214.12.3) & nic.funet.fi (128.214.6.100)
jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) (10/09/90)
Pacific Data also sells Postscript cartridges for the IID and IIP and maybe some others. Does anyone have any experience with running a software based Postscript interpreter such as Ultrascript vs using a Postscript cartridge. The Ultrascript requires at least 1 MB and probably prefers more. It would undoubtedly image much faster (assuming a fast 286 or 386) but would be limited to the bandwidth of the parallel or serial port once the Postscript is imaged. This could result in serious performance problems. On the other hand, I don't know what kind of processor is in the printer or what kind of architecture is shared by the Postscript cartridge and the printer. Additionally, there is the complexity of running a Postscript interpreter such as Ultrascript while running operating environments such as Windows. How much memory would that require ? On the other hand (I must have 3 hands), some Postscript interpreters have a preview mode (such as GoScript) which could potentially save lots of paper. I happen to have Postscript resident in my printer but am setting up a system for a friend who has the HP-IIP printer. We are both interested in software based previewing. -Jaz | Jack A Zucker {cwjcc,pyramid,decvax,uunet}!jaz@icd.ab.com | | Allen-Bradley Company, Inc. or ICCGCC::ZUCKER | | 747 Alpha Drive | Highland Hts., OH 44143 phone: (216) 646-4668 FAX: (216) 646-4484 |
pa1@tdatirv.UUCP (Pat Alvarado) (10/09/90)
In article <27753@boulder.Colorado.EDU> hartzell@boulder.Colorado.EDU (George Hartzell) writes: >In article <5612@kd4nc.UUCP>, cld@kd4nc (Charles D'Englere) writes: >>Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript >>cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the > >I've been using it to handle TeX, troff (via Transcript), and hand >coded PostScript from UNIX machines (via lpr). No problems. >g. > How about speed and quality? How would you compare the speed of the HP LJII to say an Apple LaserWriter. Approximately how many pages per minute would you say it takes the HP to print? -- |_| Pat Alvarado | Ph: (213) 524-6104 FAX: (213) 524-0012 v Teradata Corporation | tdat!pa1@suntzu.sun.com /\ /\ 100 N. Sepulveda Blvd. | uunet!edsews!hacgate!tdat!pa1 /_/ \_\ El Segundo, Calif. 90245 | pa1@tdat.teradata.com
freak@cbnewsc.att.com (c.e.malloy..iii) (10/09/90)
> To use PostScript for your hardware you need to pay Adobe for a licence > HP needs to pay Adobe for a license for its PostScript Cartridge. Adobe > doesn't need to pay for a license, so it can undercut everyone elses price > (specificly the true PostScript cartridge. The word that I get is that Hewlett-Packard wanted to offer real PostScript(r) for their laser printers. They contacted Adobe (like they could call someone else?). Hewlett-Packard now offers a PostScript for their CURRENT line of laser printers. Hewlett-Packard was ask by their customers when they would have a PostScript cartridge for the now discontinued laser printer. They stated that they would not offer it. Adobe then set about developing a cartridge for said printer. And because Adobe has a policy of not competting with companies that supply, they (Adobe) made sure that the cartridge that they offered would not work in the current line of Hewlett-Packard laser printers, only in the one that Hewlett-Packard has no intention of offering the cartridge for. The moral? There are two. 1) I comment Adobe for it's commitment to their customers. 2) If you think that you can save some money and get the Adobe PostScript cartirdge for your LaserJet III instead of the Hewlett-Pachard, DON'T. It will not work. Adobe saw to that. Clancy Malloy AT&T Bell Labs PostScript: I don't work for either Adobe or Hewlett-Packard. In fact, I don't even have access to any LaserJet printers. I just listen when people talk.
tgl@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane) (10/09/90)
Attached is a document I've been working on that describes a bunch of approaches to getting HP LaserJets to work with Macintoshes. It includes info on the HP and Pacific Page PostScript cartridges, and a little bit about the Adobe cartridge. You can just skip over the stuff about non-PostScript products; you can also ignore the Mac-specific stuff if you are using some other computer. Bottom line: buy the HP or Adobe cartridge, depending on which LaserJet model you have. If you have any corrections, additions, or other comments, please e-mail 'em to me for future updates. My address is at the end of the file. ---------- CUT HERE ---------- Using HP LaserJets with Macintoshes revised 9-Oct-90 This document tells about using Hewlett-Packard LaserJet printers with Macintosh computers. LaserJets are a good bit cheaper than Apple's laser printers, and are very high quality machines with a good company behind 'em; furthermore there are a heck of a lot of them out there, so a lot of people find themselves wanting to use one with a Mac. LaserJets (hereafter LJs) are not directly compatible with Macs, but there are several different add-on or third-party products that make it possible to use them with Macs. The plan here is to explain all these different products to help you decide which one to use. This discussion applies to the HP LaserJet line, which presently includes: * Series I: the original LJ, LJ Plus, LJ Plus 500. * Series II: LJ II, LJ IId, LJ IIp. * Series III: presently LJ III, LJ IIId; LJ IIIp is rumored to appear soon. The Series I printers are obsolete, but lots of them are still kicking around. They have little (and not readily expandable) internal memory, which limits what you can do with them. For our purposes the Series III printers are pretty much equivalent to the corresponding Series II printers, except that IIIs have the "resolution enhancement" technology. This makes a noticeable improvement in text quality but (to my eye) doesn't do much for graphics. I have *not* attempted to say anything about HP's non-laser printers (ThinkJet, DeskJet, DeskWriter, etc). Some of the products discussed here also work with those printers, some do not. Also, some of the products discussed here will work (more or less well) with HP-compatible printers made by other manufacturers. I don't know anything about the pitfalls in this area. [Anybody know anything about this?] A LITTLE BACKGROUND: MAC PRINTER DRIVERS The key piece of Mac software for printing is a "printer driver". A printer driver takes drawing commands produced by a Mac application and translates them into commands understood by a printer. The icons you see when you open the Chooser DA correspond to different printer drivers. When you say "Print", the application sends its drawing commands to the printer driver currently selected by the Chooser; the printer driver in turn sends commands to the physical printer. This lets the application be independent of the printer you use (in theory, anyway). Mac applications can produce two kinds of drawing commands: Quickdraw commands and PostScript commands. All printer drivers accept Quickdraw commands, but interpreting PostScript commands requires a large and complex piece of software (the "PostScript interpreter", which is built into PostScript printers). Currently, printer drivers for PostScript printers simply pass PostScript drawing commands straight through to the printer; drivers for non-PostScript printers reject PostScript drawing commands altogether. Hence you cannot print PostScript images on non-PostScript printers. [Some printer drivers containing PostScript interpreters are starting to appear; one is "Freedom of Press" from Custom Applications. These interpreters are not real Adobe PostScript, and so probably have compatibility problems. I'd appreciate getting details on how well FoP and the others work.] Apple includes printer drivers for all its printers with the regular Mac system software. The Apple ImageWriter drivers and the LaserWriter IISC driver are each specific to one kind of printer (all of these are non-PostScript printers). But the regular LaserWriter driver can be used with any PostScript printer, because the PostScript printer command language is standardized. To use a non-Apple printer, you can either make it look like one of the Apple printers at the hardware level (and then use that Apple printer driver), or you can use a non-Apple printer driver that emits the right kind of commands for that printer. Products exist that take each of these approaches. Hardware-level approaches can be further broken down into "PostScript" and "other" (other being ImageWriter or IISC compatibles). The advantage of PostScript is that you get to use PostScript graphics. PostScript fonts used to be restricted to PS printers, but with the appearance of Adobe Type Manager (ATM), PS fonts can be used with other printers too; so that advantage is less significant than it used to be. VERY IMPORTANT FACT: Many Mac applications do not work very well with non-Apple printer drivers. (HyperCard and many Microsoft applications are particularly blatant offenders.) This is partly Apple's fault; they never published a well-defined standard for printer drivers. Because of this, if you have a compatibility problem between an application and a non-Apple printer driver, it's hard to fix the blame for the problem. In my experience, it's tough to get satisfaction from either the application's manufacturer or the printer driver's manufacturer; you tend to get finger-pointing on both sides. This is a very strong reason for taking the hardware-level adaptation approach; then you use an Apple driver, and you can blame the application if it has trouble printing. It is rumored that Apple is working on a new, better-documented printer driver definition. When that appears (it may or may not make it into System 7.0), compatibility problems should lessen, but not until application *and* printer driver writers revise their code to use the new definition. In the short run the new definition will probably create compatibility problems of its own --- another reason to stick to hardware-level solutions. [If anyone out there knows specifics about the new print architecture and can talk, I'd appreciate hearing about possible compatibility problems.] THE PRODUCT LINEUP: These are the products discussed in this document: Software solutions (these are non-Apple printer drivers): * JetLink Express from GDT Softworks * MacPrint from Insight Development Each of these is actually a family of printer drivers, with members for the different LJ models and for other kinds of printers. (A couple of older LJ-compatible drivers are LaserStart and its successor Printworks, both from SoftStyle. These are inferior to the ones reviewed here.) Hardware solutions (these make LJs compatible with Apple printer drivers): * The Grappler series from Orange Micro. The Grappler LS and Grappler LX are for LJs and compatible printers, others are for other kinds of printers. * HP's PostScript cartridge. Works with LJ IId, IIp, III, and IIId; presumably with IIIp too. * Adobe's PostScript cartridge for LJ II (*only*). * Pacific Data's "MacPage" PostScript-clone cartridge. Works with LJ II, IId, IIp, and III. The PostScript cartridges plug right into the printer and will NOT work with anything except the specified type(s) of printer. The other products should work with HP-compatible printers as well as true HPs. Each of these products is discussed in a separate section below; then there's a summary at the end. I've tried to quote both list price and "street price", the latter being typical price from reputable mail-order houses like MacConnection. If you are at a university you can probably buy HP products at academic discount, which is somewhat lower than street price. I don't know if any of the other vendors offer academic discounts. JETLINK EXPRESS: JetLink Express (JLE) lists at $149 from GDT Softworks, (604) 291-9121; street price about $90. A Mac-to-LJ cable is included. JLE works by creating a bitmap image of the page to be printed, then dumping that into the printer. The trouble with this is that a full page at 300dpi is about 1 Megabyte of data, which takes a while to shove over a serial line. (You definitely want to be running the printer at its maximum 19200bps, not at 9600 which is all that some PCs can manage --- this may be a problem if you intend to switch the printer between PC and Mac.) GDT has put a lot of work into doing this as fast as possible; typical print times are two to four minutes per page, less if the page is only partly covered. If you are in a hurry you can work at 150 or even 75 dpi, which reduces the data volume and print time by a factor of 4 or 16, with a loss in print quality. (By now they may have an LJ III-specific driver that understands the III's graphic data compression options; that would speed things up too.) Aside from the speed problem, you need enough memory in the printer to hold the bitmap image (LJs have to store the entire page until it's printed, unlike some other printers such as DeskJets). This is not too much of a problem with the newer LJs, which come with 1Mb of memory standard. It is a problem with LJ Pluses, which have only 1/2 Mb and are not readily upgradable; but it turns out that JLE is pretty smart about not dumping white space, and this saves printer memory as well as time. I found that most 300dpi letter size pages would print on a Plus, although some rearrangement of the page was sometimes necessary to put the white space where JLE could take advantage of it. For densely printed or legal-size pages you may be forced to back off to 150dpi to avoid LJ Plus memory overflow. An original LJ has even less memory and is probably close to unusable with JLE. Text is imaged from Macintosh screen fonts, which means you get the jaggies unless you have large font sizes installed (you need 4x the screen size for best results at 300dpi). GDT has alleviated this problem by implementing scalable fonts inside their driver. JLE comes with scalable Times, Helvetica, Courier, and Symbol lookalike fonts, and you can buy more (basically the LaserWriter Plus font set) for $200. HOWEVER, there are bugs in their font handling. I found quite a lot of cases where what you saw on the screen was not what you got printed out, at least with the applications I was using (principally ReadySetGo). For example, "condensed" or "extended" text would be properly spaced only if it wasn't also bold or italic. I would recommend ignoring GDT's scalable fonts, and instead investing in Adobe Type Manager and PostScript fonts. This is slower than GDT's code, but has fewer bugs and gives you access to a vastly larger font library. You can squeeze out some additional speed by buying a serial-to-parallel converter box (about $90 from GDT). This is a win because LJs can accept graphics data through their parallel ports faster than through their serial ports. JLE can drive the Mac's serial port at speeds above 19200bps when it is mated to the converter. GDT claims this setup is 25% to 50% faster; I have not tried it. (Using parallel rather than serial can also simplify sharing the printer with a PC; just add a parallel A/B switch box. HP recommends against mechanical switch boxes, but electronic ones are safe.) I have not found any print spoolers that work with JLE. (SuperLaserSpool's latest version is claimed to, by GDT, but does NOT work reliably in my experience.) There are some application compatibility problems, but most seem related to GDT's scalable fonts, and would probably go away if you used ATM instead. My really big gripe is that GDT does not fix reported bugs, even when you tell them exactly what the problem is and where (I spent some time disassembling their driver for my own amusement). After waiting 6 months and paying for an upgrade I would sure as hell expect to get a fix... GDT has recently released version 2.0 of JLE; this version may or may not improve the bug/compatibility situation. [I'd like to hear from anyone who has the new version; having moved up to a PostScript printer, I'm not going to be buying it myself.] MACPRINT: MacPrint (MP) lists at $149 from Insight Development, (415) 652-4115; street price about $95. A Mac-to-LJ cable is included. [I have not used MacPrint personally; corrections to this section would be appreciated.] MP takes a different approach to printing text: instead of imaging characters as bitmaps, it sends the raw text to the printer to be printed in one of the printer's fonts (either built-in or installed in a plug-in font cartridge). This is a lot faster than JLE's bitmaps, because MP only needs to send 1 byte per character, but it has its own drawbacks; chiefly, you get funny spacing unless the Mac is using a screen font that exactly matches the printer font size-wise. MP comes with some screen fonts that match some standard HP printer fonts. [I don't know if MP supports the III's scalable printer fonts yet.] MP uses bitmap printing for Mac fonts that don't correspond to HP fonts, and for graphics images. You can use ATM with MP; the PostScript fonts are then output using bitmap printing. Actually JLE can use printer fonts too; they call it "draft mode", and don't support any bitmap printing in that mode. The real difference between the two products is that JLE is optimized to do bitmaps well, whereas MP concentrates on doing HP-font text well. JLE is considerably faster than MP at bitmap printing; so JLE is quicker for most graphics and for any font that's not built into the printer. While I have not used MP personally, I've heard from a number of satisfied users. Based on data so far, it appears that MP has fewer compatibility problems than JLE [though not zero; MacWrite 4.5 is said not to work with MP, but does work with JLE]. This fact alone is probably enough to tilt the scales in favor of MP for most people. For what it's worth, Hewlett-Packard thinks enough of MacPrint to resell it in their catalog; I can state from personal experience that offering other people's software is not something they do lightly. GRAPPLER: The Grappler LX is the current product for LaserJets; earlier versions for LJs included the Grappler LS and LQ. [Is the LS still available?] List price for the LX is $199 from Orange Micro, (800) 223-8029; street price about $130. Grappler is an external box that converts Apple ImageWriter print data into LJ commands. (There are Grappler versions for other popular printers too.) It uses the Apple "ImageWriter LQ" printer driver, but modifies the driver slightly so that it uses the correct page size and resolution for the printer. (For example, with an LJ a 300dpi image needs to be produced, not the 216dpi used by the ImageWriter LQ. Apparently the driver is written in such a way that this change is easy to make.) The data being sent to the printer is bitmaps, so speed leaves something to be desired, and you need adequate memory in the printer (Orange Micro recommends 1Mb minimum). See previous JLE discussion. The Grappler is probably not as smart as JLE about optimizing away white space, so it probably won't cope as well as JLE does with 1/2 Mb LJ Pluses (and in fact Orange Micro doesn't officially support Pluses with the Grappler). Like JLE, Grappler depends on the Mac to supply fonts; you need large size fonts to get high resolution text. Orange Micro provides large-size Times, Helvetica, and Courier lookalike fonts. As with JLE, purchasing ATM and PostScript fonts is probably the best solution if you want publication quality output. [I have not used a Grappler personally. More info would be appreciated. What's the difference between LX, LS, LQ Grapplers? What is performance like? Are there any application compatibility problems?] GENERAL COMMENTS ABOUT POSTSCRIPT CARTRIDGES: PostScript (PS) cartridges are available for Series II and III LJs; the Series I printers are not sufficiently expandable to support a PS cart. The standard Apple LaserWriter driver expects to talk to PS printers over an AppleTalk network. The "network" can be just a simple cable between your Mac and the printer, but the printer has to use the AppleTalk protocol. If you happen to have multiple Macs, an AppleTalk network is a cheap and easy way to share the printer; even if you have only one Mac, AppleTalk is faster and more error-proof than RS232 protocol. However, if you are on a tight budget you may not want to shell out extra money for AppleTalk-capable printer hardware. If you buy the Adobe or Pacific Data PostScript cartridges, the manufacturer will give you a modified LaserWriter driver that expects to use a standard RS232 connection to the printer. If you buy HP's PostScript cartridge, HP does not give you an RS232-capable printer driver; they want to also sell you a $200+ AppleTalk interface board for the printer. You can buy that, or you can buy an RS232-modified version of the Apple LaserWriter printer driver from APDA, for only $20 plus whatever the APDA membership fee is these days. (See below.) This will let you hook up to the LJ's standard serial port, saving some money. [I have no data about possible application compatibility problems with these modified printer drivers. Another possible drawback of using an RS232 connection is that utilities that expect to talk directly to the printer (SendPS, LaserStatus, etc.) may not work. Does anyone have any experience with this?] If you are willing to wait a while, Adobe's forthcoming rewrite of the LaserWriter driver will most likely support both Appletalk and RS232 connections to PostScript printers. Of course they will not give it away free, but it will surely be cheaper than the HP AppleTalk board. It remains to be seen how many compatibility problems will arise with the Adobe driver. For all the PS cartridges, you must buy extra internal memory for the printer, as the standard amount of memory is not enough. For HP's and Pacific Data's cartridges you need 2 Megabytes add-on memory; to do double-sided printing in a IId or IIId you need 4Mb add-on (HP's cart only, PD's won't do this at all). Adobe says 1.5Mb add-on is sufficient for their cart. [Actually the HP cart will function with just 1Mb add-on, but I've heard reports of trouble printing complex pages with the minimum. HP recommends 2Mb add-on and I'd say to follow their recommendation.] Don't buy the extra memory from HP; they charge about three times what it is worth. Several third-party vendors make a comfortable living selling HP-compatible memory boards at more realistic prices. I bought mine from South Coast Electronics (213-208-3260) for $270 for a 2Mb board with sockets for 2 more Mb (that's a March 1990 price and it's probably fallen since then). Pacific Data Products has a good reputation for their HP memory boards. [Reports about other memory vendors would be appreciated.] HP'S POSTSCRIPT CARTRIDGE: HP Part Number 33439P, lists at $695; street price about $550. This contains a genuine Adobe PostScript interpreter, version 52.2 (very recent). The cartridge works in LJ IId, IIp, and all Series III models, but *not* in the original Series II LJ. (See the Adobe cartridge if you have a II.) You'll also need extra printer memory, as noted above. 2Mb extra is recommended (4Mb extra for a IId or IIId; double-sided printing does not work with less). You might need more memory if you use *lots* of downloaded PostScript fonts. (I've had no trouble printing font sample documents with a dozen or more downloaded fonts, so I think that 2Mb will satisfy all normal needs.) If you want to connect the printer using AppleTalk protocol, you'll need an AppleTalk Interface Kit, HP part # 33416A; list price is $275, street price about $220. (I bought one of the first ones off the assembly line; street price may have fallen by now. The same may be true of the PS cart itself.) If you need to save some money, you can use a slower RS232 connection: instead of the AT interface kit, buy APDA's item M7601 "Asynchronous LaserWriter Driver" for $20. (There's also a one time membership charge to join APDA. If anyone knows the current fee and how to join, please let me know for inclusion here.) The APDA driver doesn't know anything about printer features that aren't in Apple LaserWriters, such as the double sided printing capability of the IId and IIId; otherwise it should work OK. NOTE: this driver calls itself v4.0, but apparently it is based on v6.0 of the standard driver; so it's not as out of date as you might think from the number. [If anyone has used this driver, I'd appreciate hearing about any gotchas. Does it work just like the regular LaserWriter driver?] Finally, you need to buy a cable. If you go the AppleTalk route, you can buy AppleTalk cabling (expensive, but necessary if you want to network the printer to more than one Mac); or if you have just one Mac, you can buy a plain "null modem" cable. (Your Apple dealer will sell you one if you ask for an ImageWriter II cable; they're about $10.) NOTE: for safety with the cheaper cable, you should be sure the Mac and printer are both plugged into the same power outlet. The main reason AppleTalk is so expensive is that there are isolation transformers in the cabling. You don't need these if you have only one Mac and one printer and they are on the same power circuit. [I don't know what kind of cable is required to hook up an RS232 connection; probably this info is in the APDA driver documentation, but details would be appreciated. HP does *not* provide any cable with the printer.] If you buy the AppleTalk card, you also get a customized version of the Apple LaserWriter printer driver; however, you can use the regular Apple driver if you want to. The customized driver is mainly useful for getting at specialized features, such as double-sided printing on the IId or changing resolution enhancement settings on a III. With a IIp you might as well use the Apple driver. (I've found some applications that work OK with the Apple driver but not with the HP driver: DesignStudio 1.0, Multiplan 1.0, MS Word 3.0. SuperLaserSpool seems to have problems with the HP driver too.) This combo gives you the functional equivalent of a LaserWriter IINT, although benchmarks recently reported in MacUser (Oct. 90 issue) make it look a bit slower than a IINT. I detect considerable anti-HP bias in the text of the MacUser review [in particular, their statements about LJ III print quality are way out of line with my experience], but I don't think they fudged the timing numbers. The HP PS cartridge is a solid, user-friendly implementation. For example, you can enable or disable the power-up test page from the front panel, instead of having to send an arcane bit of PostScript. Since the PS interpreter is by Adobe, it should have no deviations from the de facto PS standard. One shortcoming of the HP cart is that to switch between PostScript and native HP mode, you have to power down the printer and insert or remove the PS cart. This is very easy, but since you have to wait through the power-up selftest, the elapsed time to swap is a couple of minutes. This is not a big problem unless you want to share the printer with a PC on a daily basis. Also note that any HP-type fonts built into the printer are totally ignored by the PS cartridge; conversely, you can't use PS fonts in HP mode. ADOBE'S POSTSCRIPT CARTRIDGE: Adobe offers a PostScript cartridge for the original (now discontinued) Series II LJ. This cart does *not* work in the IId, IIp, or Series III models. (Adobe and HP evidently have an agreement not to tread on each other's toes here, as the HP cartridge works in exactly the printers Adobe's doesn't.) I believe street price for this cartridge is about $300. It comes with an RS232-based printer driver and a cable, I think. [As far as I know, it will *not* work with the HP AppleTalk interface.] You still must buy at least 1.5Mb add-on memory; see above for recommendations. I have heard that this cart allows programmable switching between PS and HP modes, unlike HP's cart. Otherwise I have no details about it. Reports from users would be appreciated. PACIFIC DATA'S "MACPAGE" POSTSCRIPT-CLONE CARTRIDGE: The MacPage cartridge is from Pacific Data Products, (619) 552-0880; I don't have list price, but street price is about $450. It works in LJ II, IIp, IId, or III printers. (NB: the IId's double sided printing capability is NOT currently supported. I don't know if it works in the IIId yet.) A cable and RS232 printer driver are included. (You cannot use the HP AppleTalk interface.) You also need 2Mbytes add-on memory; see above for recommendations. The cart does not use an Adobe PostScript interpreter, but rather a "clone" from Phoenix Technologies. I have not personally used the Pacific Data cart, but I have seen numerous complaints about it on the net; it is apparently slow, buggy, and not very compatible with real Adobe PostScript. It is also reported that the manufacturer is not responsive to complaints, and that their tech support people are unfamiliar with Macintoshes. A typical complaint is: > If it runs out of paper during a print job, adding more paper doesn't > continue the job --- you have to reset the printer. (Bad news, folks. > Sending an end-of-job (^D) down the line doesn't help, and Pacific Data > isn't interested in problems like this.) I have some more complaints on file if you need further dissuasion... One advantage of the PD cart over HP's is that you can switch between PS and native HP mode with a software command. The printer does a powerup selftest cycle in response, so switching isn't much faster than with HP's, but at least you can do it without manual intervention. Unless the software switch feature is absolutely essential to you, the HP cartridge is the superior choice for LJ IId, IIp, and III. The Adobe cart is probably the better choice if you have an original LJ II, but I don't have any direct reports on it. SUMMARY: If you have an original LaserJet (not Plus), MacPrint is probably your only choice; you don't have enough printer memory to run JLE or Grappler, except in draft mode which is not their strong point. Personally I'd say to recycle the printer as a boat anchor and buy a IIp. If you have an LJ Plus or Plus 500, Grappler is probably unusable [has anyone tried it?]; JLE is workable but can be aggravating, as small changes to a page can make it overflow printer memory. MacPrint seems to be the best choice. If you want to do a lot of full page 300dpi graphics, you should go with JLE anyway, as it does a somewhat better job of data compression, giving you a better shot at fitting the image into printer memory. You should probably buy ATM regardless of which printer driver you choose. For any Series II or III, I think you should go the PostScript route if at all feasible. The up front expense will be more than repaid in reduced aggravation and added graphics capability. If you can't afford the price of admission, I'd recommend buying MacPrint [or possibly Grappler?] and ATM. That way you can at least be using PostScript fonts, and when you finally scrape up the cash for a PostScript upgrade you will still be able to use your font library. These remarks are all based on my own experiences, which are mainly desktop publishing chores. No-hassle operation and fussy text appearance requirements were my big criteria. If you are mainly interested in fast text output and are not picky about your fonts, you may well find that MacPrint is better than PostScript. The situation is likely to change considerably when System 7.0 is released, both due to the new print architecture and due to the availability of TrueType scalable fonts. [If anyone in the know is willing to say anything about the best bets for surviving System 7, please do!] Before committing to any non-PostScript solution, I'd recommend thorough tests with the application programs you plan to use. If that's not possible, try posting a specific query about the combinations you're interested in. [I'd appreciate such data for inclusion in this message.] A PLEA FOR MORE DATA: Please e-mail comments, corrections, confirmations, etc to the address below. I'd appreciate not getting flamed too severely for any errors... -- tom lane Internet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu UUCP: <your favorite internet/arpanet gateway>!cs.cmu.edu!tgl BITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@cmuccvma CompuServe: >internet:tgl@cs.cmu.edu
schuster@cup.portal.com (Michael Alan Schuster) (10/10/90)
>>The ads are correct. The Adobe cartridge is designed for, and works ONLY >>with the "LaserJet Series II". Period. NOT the IID. NOT the IIP. NOT the III, >>and NOT the IIID. Just the Series II. Period. > >Sorry, but you are mistaken, the HP Adobe Postscript cartridge that I have >works only on the HP series IIP, IID and series III. The cartridges list >for around $800.00, but can be found for $450.00. I have heard that HP >offers a cartridge for the series II also, but that because it uses a older >processor board that it is not compatable with the newer releases for the >IIP, IID and III. > >I am very satisified with them, and have tested them against a Apple 2NTX. >They are fast, and more importantly, they work. > >The part number for IIP, IID and III support: HP33439P > >You need 2 meg of printer memory to use it, but HP says that by adding more >memory, you can make it faster. I have heard nothing of additional >cartridges for more fonts, but the documentation says that Adobe downloadable >fonts work just fine! Sorry, my friend, but it is YOU who are mistaken - you have not read the messages carefully enough. Please re-read the message thread, and you will understand. The original question was about using the "Adobe PostScript "Cartridge" on the LaserJet III. I replied, correctly, that the product I have specifically named in quotes will not work in the LaserJet III. This is correct, and I continue to maintain that the product sold BY ADOBE is for the Series II and that printer alone! The product that *YOU* have, and use in your printer, is the *HEWLETT-PACKARD* PostScript cartridge, which is for the IID/IIP/III/IIID. This is NOT an Adobe product, but an HP product written, manufactured, and marketed by Hewlett Packard (it contains code and fonts licensed from Adobe, however). Therefore when someone asks about the *ADOBE* cartridge, it is inaccurate to reply citing your experience with the *HETLWETT-PACKARD* product, since they are entirely different products.
rfutscher@pbs.org (10/12/90)
In article <5612@kd4nc.UUCP>, cld@kd4nc.UUCP (Charles D'Englere) writes: > Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript > cartridge on a HP LaserJet III. The Adobe cartridge is the > cheapest of all the PostScript cartridges sold ( I can not > image why :-) ). All the ads only talk about the HP LJ II > and not the III. Adobe also offers and additional font > cartridge to use with the PostScript cartridge. I have been useing the cartridge for several weeks now. The printer doesn't seem to have any problems, almost all my software does however. Word for windows in the WYSIWYG mode shows the correct page layout, but when you print there is extra space between any line that contains a zingbat and the following line. There work- around was to add a non-breaking space. It dosn't work. No fix in version 1.1 either. Drafix CAD for windows prints some solid lines in what looks like 75dpi. Lots of white spaces between dots.Drafix takes about 3 hours to print useing PCL and about 45 min. useing Postscript. The program to auto switch between PCL and Postscript would switch from Postscript to PCL in the middle of a postscript download. It usees lots of disk space. You still need the font outlines to make screen fonts. The screen fonts still usea lot of disk space. All considered, I am happy with my purchase.
jab@ingres.com (jeff bowles) (10/12/90)
In article <1905@abvax.UUCP> jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker) writes: >Pacific Data also sells Postscript cartridges for the IID and IIP and maybe >some others. Does anyone have any experience with running a software based >Postscript interpreter such as Ultrascript vs using a Postscript cartridge. > >I happen to have Postscript resident in my printer but am setting up a >system for a friend who has the HP-IIP printer. We are both interested >in software based previewing. I used the Pacific Data Postscript cartridge for the II, which isn't the same as their IIP cartridge, but suspect it's close enough for this comparison: 1. The marketing people for Pacific Data will be quick to tell you that their product doesn't support the HP Appletalk interface. 2. At least on the II, the cartridge is VERY SLOW compared to a printer with Postscript designed into the thing. Moreover, the printer would hang if you were using a parallel interface and ran out of people, and wouldn't even accept an end-of-job (^D) to flush its buffers. You'd have to power-cycle the printer, and for the Novell Network it was attached to, that was a nuisance. 3. Using a serial interface seemed to be okay if it's attached to one machine, with one user who doesn't mind baby-sitting it. But if it's in an unattended environment, I'd go for something that supports the network interface (which implies multiple users and hopefully less baby-sitting.) Now that HP sells the Postscript cartridge, and it's "real" Adobe, it's probably worth the time to get it from them. I heard Pacific Data say "well, it's not our product that's screwing up - good luck finding the bug" too many times to believe they'll support their products. That doesn't quite answer your question, but does give you more data points. Jeff Bowles
jeffe@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (George Jefferson ) (10/12/90)
> It usees lots of disk space. You still need the font outlines >to make screen fonts. The screen fonts still usea lot of disk space. Again, this has nothing to do with your choice of an HP printer with ps cartridge rather that some other PostScript printer. -right, or should I be concerned? -- -george @sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
mr@ogre (Michael Regoli) (10/15/90)
In article <5612@kd4nc.UUCP>, cld@kd4nc (Charles D'Englere) writes:
Has anybody out there in netland tried the Adobe Postscript
cartridge on a HP LaserJet III.
Yes, I have for about two months now and it works great. The printer
has three megabytes of RAM and the HP PostScript version 52.2
cartridge. All works very well.
--
michael regoli
mr@cica.cica.indiana.edu
regoli@iubacs.bitnet
...rutgers!iuvax!cica!mr