rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) (03/16/91)
OK, I grant that the subject line will hit many of you as a world-class stupid question. Let me explain. It is well known (regardless of whether it's true) that Courier is one of the ugliest fonts in the history of Western Civilization (such as it is). In particular, it's regarded as ugly even within the limited context of being a fixed-pitch font, which is a tough constraint on font design. What I'd like to get is some consensus of _why_ it's considered so ugly. What specific features offend the most, or cause the most problem in reading it? What would you fix, again within the constraint of fixed width? (I have my own list; I want to collect other folks' reasons into something more global.) If you just have some short reasons and would rather email, I'll collect them and summarize. (Oh...and if you think Courier _isn't_ ugly, that's OK...please speak up; we could use a laugh.:-) -- Dick Dunn rcd@ico.isc.com -or- ico!rcd Boulder, CO (303)449-2870 ...Relax...don't worry...have a homebrew.
tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) (03/17/91)
Courier is ugly because it is too plain for a text font and too spindly and serif-y for a line printer font. Its origins lie in the exigencies of making a cheap mechanical typewriter do its job adequately through six carbons and seven owners. Nothing about it is a "natural" for computer use -- it's just there out of a sort of grandfather clause.
preston@lll-crg.llnl.gov (David R Preston) (03/18/91)
That's an easy one. It looks like a sans-serif font with serifs
tacked on. I don't know the technical terms to discuss fonts, but
the lines and curves are all the same width. Totally monotonous.
Also, the overall weight (or do I mean "color") is too light.
However, if the purpose of using it is to set off something as
being different (like including some code in a paper set in a
normal font), it's definitely different. When I fill out the survey
in the current _Font and Function_, I'm going to answer "good-looking
monospace font" to the "what typefaces would you like to see added
to Adobe's library?" question. I think a monospaced Optima would be
reasonable for code listing. Or maybe mono Lucida or Clearface.
-david
preston@lll-crg.llnl.gov
[the United States has] "no opinion on your border
dispute with Kuwait" - U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie, July, 1990
D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USAlanders@zeus.mgmt.purdue.edu (Chris Landers) (03/19/91)
In article <1991Mar15.225317.13890@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: > >It is well known (regardless of whether it's true) that Courier is one of >the ugliest fonts in the history of Western Civilization (such as it is). I'm sorry, but that honor must go to Letter Gothic, especially as reproduced on a WANG laser printer ;-) >What I'd like to get is some consensus of _why_ it's considered so ugly. I don't think Courier is ugly, it's just boring, and seen too often. -- <================================><===============================> || Christopher Landers || PURDUE UNIVERSITY - KRAN 708 || || Krannert Computing Center || West Lafayette, IN 47907 || <=================== landers@zeus.mgmt.purdue.edu ================>
anton@chinet.chi.il.us (Borowiec Andrzej) (03/19/91)
If Courier was invented by the same guy who gave us Qwerty keyboard layout it would explain a lot. Andrzej Borowiec <anton@chinet.chi.il.us> .
zombie@voodoo.UUCP (Mike York) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar19.011328.16296@zeus.mgmt.purdue.edu> landers@zeus.mgmt.purdue.edu (Chris Landers) writes: >In article <1991Mar15.225317.13890@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >>It is well known (regardless of whether it's true) that Courier is one of >>the ugliest fonts in the history of Western Civilization (such as it is). >I'm sorry, but that honor must go to Letter Gothic, especially as reproduced >on a WANG laser printer ;-) I'm sorry, you're both wrong. OCRB is the ugliest, most hideous, disgusting font in the history of the universe. ;^) Unfortunately, the Air Transport Association dictates that manuals for airplanes be printed with "a sans-serif monospaced font" which is generally interpreted as OCRB. So that's what we use in our manuals. What I wouldn't give to use Courier for text paragraphs and Helvetica for illustrations... -- Mike York | "Lord help me, I'm just not Boeing Computer Services | that bright." (206) 865-6577 | zombie@voodoo.boeing.com | -Homer Simpson
evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) (03/20/91)
In article <1991Mar15.225317.13890@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >It is well known (regardless of whether it's true) that Courier is one of >the ugliest fonts in the history of Western Civilization (such as it is). >In particular, it's regarded as ugly even within the limited context of >being a fixed-pitch font, which is a tough constraint on font design. > >What I'd like to get is some consensus of _why_ it's considered so ugly. First, as you suggest, the constrait of being designed for fixed-pitch is a good cause of the ugliness in itself. Propotionally spaced type just looks more ... natural. Look at the letter 'i' in Courier, it seems as if the letter's serifs are stretched out of proportion to prevent too mucg white space floating around the letter in fixed pitch. I haven't seen any studies, but my instinct tells me that fixed pitch Courier is harder on the eye than classic body types like Times or Bookman. Another problem is in the stroke weights. There's no variation, no thin and thick lines, everything's the same. Boring. On a sans-serif type like Avant Garde or Univers, you can get away with it, but only as a display font -- would you ever want to read a book whose body type was set in Avant Garde? Uniform stroke weights on serif fonts just don't seem to work well. There are a few such fonts, such as Egyptian (I think), but they only work for their novelty value, which means they need to be used sparingly at best. The biggest problem, though, is that it's so ubiquitous - It's the only font you can produce on just about every typewriter, daisy wheel, LQ dot matrix and laser printer ever built. It's too common. In client sites where I've upgraded their printers with Postscript cartidges, the main oohs and aahs come not from fancy graphics, shading, or scalable fonts... it's the ability to do business letters in a proportional font without the bother of downloaded fonts. -- Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504 Vanilla Ice is a few cubes short of a full tray...
gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Dave Gilbert) (03/21/91)
In article <1991Mar15.225317.13890@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: > >It is well known (regardless of whether it's true) that Courier is one of >the ugliest fonts in the history of Western Civilization (such as it is). >What I'd like to get is some consensus of _why_ it's considered so ugly. 1) I think Courier is a non-proportionaly spaced font - thus I has the same space as W - which looks pretty bad - as fonts go. 2) Consider the laser printer manufacturers - they supply the machines with bad fonts - that way they have a good chance of other people buying better fonts - I wouldn't put this past printer manufacturers! 3) Its been around for a long time - better stuff has appeared, but you've got to keep courier since things might just use it. Dave Gilbert -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Dave Gilbert - gilbertd@p4.cs.man.ac.uk - The MTBF of a piece of equipment - - G7FHJ@GB7NWP - is inversly proportional to its - ------------------------------------------- importance -
gasior@khazad-dum.rutgers.edu (Eric Gasior) (03/23/91)
evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes: >In article <1991Mar15.225317.13890@ico.isc.com> rcd@ico.isc.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >First, as you suggest, the constrait of being designed for fixed-pitch >is a good cause of the ugliness in itself. Propotionally spaced type Wrong. My local printer is an old daisy wheel, and some of the monospaced print wheels are rather pleasant. Prestige Elite and Prestige Pica hold up well over 10 pages. My current wheel (I can't remember the typestyle) is also decent, even if the letters are a little small for 12 cpi. ... >The biggest problem, though, is that it's so ubiquitous - It's the only >font you can produce on just about every typewriter, daisy wheel, LQ dot >matrix and laser printer ever built. It's too common. In client sites >where I've upgraded their printers with Postscript cartidges, the main >oohs and aahs come not from fancy graphics, shading, or scalable >fonts... it's the ability to do business letters in a proportional font >without the bother of downloaded fonts. Ubiquitous? I've never seen a courrier wheel for my printer, and the Selectrics I've seen generally don't have it either. Not all monospaced fonts look alike, or as bad as courrier. I wonder why HP chose it. Courrier has strange serifs. It's the only monospaced font that I know where the bases of the 'i' and 'l' run for most of the character's allotted space. (BTW The Laser Writer's courrier is different from HP's.) EDG