biep@cs.vu.nl (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) (01/19/88)
In article <1671@russell.STANFORD.EDU>, nakashim@russell.stanford.edu (Hideyuki Nakashima) writes: >I came up with a theory to explain the difference in word orders >between English and Japanese. This is a very naive theory. Any >comments are welcome. > >In English, verbs come very early in the sentence. Second position in >declarative and the first position in imperative. In Japanese, verbs >come at the end of sentences. > [goes on to hypothesize that this might be the result of a hunters/farmers > difference: (English) hunters need to be understood quickly.] [Others mention: - Farming appeared much earlier in Britain than in Japan - Latin has verbs at the end too, French hasn't. ] In article <275@draken.nada.kth.se>, d85-kai@nada.kth.se (Kai-Mikael J{{-Aro) writes: >Verbs usually come at the end of sentences in German as well and I'm >not convinced that the Germans are more of a farming people than the >English. (In fact, English *is* a Germanic language.) German (and Dutch) seem to form something like an intermediary form between English/French and Latin: in top-level sentences verbs come in the second position, and in lower-level ones they come at the end: Dutch examples: Ik *zie* hem (I *see* him) Morgen *zal* ik hem zien (Tomorrow *shall* I him see -- note the inversion, necessary to keep the verb at the second place!) Ik *geloof*, dat ik hem *zie* (I *believe*, that I him *see* -- in the second-level sentence, the verb appears at the end.) This feature makes, that one cannot just call a parser recursively on sub-sentences, like in English: the first level has other rules than the rest. A specialty of Dutch is furthermore, that the form of the verb can depend on whether the subject comes before or after it: Jij *loopt* daar (You walk there) Daar *loop* jij (There walk you -- note the missing "t"!) -- Biep. (biep@cs.vu.nl via mcvax) "Law" is the name given to a collection of rules describing how to act with people that do not follow the law.
bobcoe@cca.CCA.COM (Robert K. Coe) (01/20/88)
In article <975@klipper.cs.vu.nl> biep@cs.vu.nl (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) writes: #In article <1671@russell.STANFORD.EDU>, # nakashim@russell.stanford.edu (Hideyuki Nakashima) writes: #>I came up with a theory to explain the difference in word orders #>between English and Japanese. This is a very naive theory. Any #>comments are welcome. I have to wonder what Nakashima would make of the Polynesian languages (Hawaiian et al), in which the very distinction between nouns and verbs is at most weak and unconvincing. -- => Robert K. Coe * bobcoe@cca.cca.com <= => Computer Corporation of America * <= => 4 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, Mass. 02142 * 617-492-8860, ext. 428 <= => "Everyone should adopt a homeless dog." <=
ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) (01/21/88)
In article <23431@cca.CCA.COM>, bobcoe@cca.CCA.COM (Robert K. Coe) writes: > In article <975@klipper.cs.vu.nl> biep@cs.vu.nl (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) writes: > I have to wonder what Nakashima would make of the Polynesian languages > (Hawaiian et al), in which the very distinction between nouns and verbs is at > most weak and unconvincing. While it is true that *individual words* "bases" are not readily classifiable as nouns, verbs, adjectives &c (many words in Maaori are so-called "universals" which means they can be all three), it is nevertheless the case that noun PHRASES and verb PHRASES are clearly distinct. There is a set of particles which can begin a verb phrase, and there is a set of particles which can begin a noun phrase, and there is very little overlap or confusion. For example, in Kua waiata teenei tangata --- Has sung that man the particle Kua tells us that we've got a verb phrase, but in Kei te rongo a Hoani ki ngaa waiata ---- is listening John to the songs the article Ngaa (the/plural) tells us that we've got a (plural) noun phrase.
ut6y@hp1.ccs.cornell.edu (Uncle Mikey (Michael Scott Shappe)) (01/22/88)
In article <975@klipper.cs.vu.nl> biep@cs.vu.nl (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) writes: > - Latin has verbs at the end too, French hasn't. In Classical Latin, the most important verb of the sentence comes last, true, but other verbs (assuming more than a simple sence) needn't come in any particular order, though they usually end off their clause. In simple senten- ces, the verb USUALLY comes last, but may appear anywhere the speaker feels is appropriate to what s/he is trying to say, including first. Uncle Mikey Michael Scott Shappe -- Cornell University BitNet: UT6Y@CRNLVAX5 Inter : UT6Y@vax5.ccs.cornell.edu, @hp1.ccs.cornell.edu UUCP : UT6Y@hp1.UUCP