mls@whutt.UUCP (SIEMON) (03/11/88)
In article <17702@think.UUCP>, barmar@think.COM (Barry Margolin) writes: > > ... I also taught my parents, who are > completely computer illiterate, how to use the Mac. In this case, I > am very glad that it only has one button, as it was hard enough > teaching them how to use the menus, and double-clicking was a major > achievement. ... > > The Mac user interface is designed not to tax the memory of extremely > unsophisticated users. ... > > Barry Margolin But note that they need training. The sophisticated users need even MORE training! The notion that the Mac interface is "intuitive" is rubbish. (Yes, it's easy; that's not the same thing!) Don't get me wrong (:-)) I LOVE my MACII; and it IS very easy to do things on it that are hard to do on a PC-clone or on plain vanilla UNIX (I'm not talking about bit-mapped UNIX ala NeWS or X here). But I have always resented the notion that I should be a clone of Steve Jobs; one person's intuition is another's long hard struggle with frustration. (Boy did I sympathize with the guy who confessed his having to be shown double clicking. I caught on -- after a lot of agony -- from reading a manual, but Apple sure makes it hard. I HATE their condescendingly stupid tutorials.) The fanatics of the various computer religions never seem to realize that people are DIFFERENT and not in an US vs. THEM way. One major failing of the visual/mouse interface is that while a given interactive action is very easy, it is hard or impossible to do "meta" actions -- things that fit an easy algebraic pattern in some language for talking about actions (e.g., a UNIX shell). It is very encouraging to see recognition from Apple (MPW on one hand and A/UX on the other) that people and problems differ and require ALL GOOD solutions to come to the aid of the party ... (oops) Michael Siemon contracted to AT&T Bell Laboratories (disclaimer: these are my opinions) ihnp4!mhuxu!mls
arthure@sco.COM (Arthur Evans) (03/16/88)
In article <2940@whutt.UUCP> mls@whutt.UUCP (SIEMON) writes: > But note that they need training. The sophisticated users need >even MORE training! The notion that the Mac interface is "intuitive" is >rubbish. (Yes, it's easy; that's not the same thing!) I agree completely -- I agonized over the concept of removing a file on the mac for like half an hour ... The way it works just doesn't make sense to me. Why is it intuitive that moving an icon onto one icon (a disk or folder icon) *copies* a file, but moving it onto a garbage can icon *deletes* it? Intuition is in the mind of the intuiter, I guess ... -arthur -- Even Jesus wanted just a little more time When he was walking Spanish down the hall ... - Tom Waits
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (03/17/88)
In article <116@scolex>, arthure@sco.COM (Arthur Evans) writes:
# The way it works just doesn't make sense to me. Why is it
# intuitive that moving an icon onto one icon (a disk or
# folder icon) *copies* a file, but moving it onto a garbage
# can icon *deletes* it? Intuition is in the mind of the
Oh wait! It's gets even more interesting when you decide to
eject a disk by moving the *disk icon* to the *trash icon*!
This is *completely* COUNTER-INTUITIVE ... after all you just
deleted a file by dragging it to the trash.merchant@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Peter Merchant) (03/29/88)
In article <1769@ssc-vax.UUCP>, Charles L. Ditzel writes: > It's gets even more interesting when you decide to > eject a disk by moving the *disk icon* to the *trash icon*! > This is *completely* COUNTER-INTUITIVE ... after all you just > deleted a file by dragging it to the trash. Moving the disk to the trashcan is a shortcut, much like a double-click, and is not intended to be the "proper" way to do things. One can come up with all sorts of non-intuitive shortcuts in both The Finder and various applications. I think it's preferable for all shortcuts to make some form of sense. For example, throwing the disk in the trash is a shortcut for ejecting the disk and then throwing it's hollow icon in the trash. I agree that it took me quite some time to figure out how in the world this pointing-and-clicking stuff works. But, then again, I grew up on command-line interfaces and wasn't used to the concept of dealing with pictures at all, which made everything very strange. I kept looking for the menu item that said "Erase file"... --- "One step forward, Peter Merchant (merchant@eleazar.UUCP) Two steps back..."