kempf@tci.bell-atl.com (Cory Kempf) (02/10/90)
keith@startrek.eng.ohio-state.edu (Keith M Boyer) writes: > "I think we should choose >one set of windowing tools and put them on all our machines. Why don't you >and the others discuss this and let me know which." [...] > So, Bob, Amanda, anyone. Do you have pointers >to a real comparison of the choices, both from a technical and political >(which one will survive) point of view on where to place our emphasis. I had to do this a little while ago for TCI. I did some research, and noted the following facts: SUN ownes about 35% of the workstation market. Before the HP-Apollo deal, they pretty much had it nailed down. HP, Apollo, DEC, IBM, DG, and SGI pretty much own the rest. There is about 5% that is scattered about with other vendors. SUN says OPEN LOOK is the way to go. HP, Apollo, DEC, IBM, and SGI are all OSF members. I think that all have announced that they are releasing Motif on their platforms with their next releases. I know that DG is already shipping Motif. Motif is VERY similar in look and feel to OS/2 PM and Windows. If you have ever used one of them, you will have no trouble using Motif (once you get used to the 'Art Deco' look) (twiddling resources is a seperate issue) Sun guessed wrong about X also. Thats the politics. I didn't go much into the technical differences... they very rarely influence the market anyhow. +C -- Cory Kempf Technology Concepts phone: (508) 443-7311 x341 uucp: {anywhere}!uunet!tci!kempf, kempf@tci.bell-atl.com DISCLAIMER: TCI is not responsible for my opinions, nor I for theirs
smikes@cbnewsi.ATT.COM (steven.mikes) (02/13/90)
In article <671@tci.bell-atl.com>, kempf@tci.bell-atl.com (Cory Kempf) writes: > keith@startrek.eng.ohio-state.edu (Keith M Boyer) writes: > > > "I think we should choose > >one set of windowing tools and put them on all our machines. Why don't you > >and the others discuss this and let me know which." > [...] > > So, Bob, Amanda, anyone. Do you have pointers > >to a real comparison of the choices, both from a technical and political > >(which one will survive) point of view on where to place our emphasis. Far be it for me to come to the aid of our competition, however a few words of truth must be said on behalf of Motif, and HP in particular. Relevant to another article in which the respondant states market share percentages, I don't see at all what bearing that has on selecting a good user interface. Now, I have used (and programmed in) OSF's Motif and (AT&T's & Sun's) OpenLook products for some time now. Both offer attractive features. Both are based on a click-to-type interface, probably because both are based technology similar to the MacIntosh (et al Xerox PARC's stuff from the early 70's.) My own personal feeling, and this is NOT my company's official position, I currently prefer Motif, for several reasons (mostly personal). I believe that Motif is more familiar to most users than OpenLook is (and ever will be). Consider this: Motif is loosley based on MS-Windows, which is purported to have an installed distribution of 4 million plus users. This is 3 million greater than all of the installed UNIX sites the world over. Add to that the growing number of OS/2 Presentation Mgr. installations and the 4 million number rapidly approaches 5 million. Of the installed UNIX base, less than 10% of those systems are currently running X environments. [Granted, 1 UNIX system supports several - sometimes even hundreds - of users, as opposed to 1 DOS user per PC, however, I doubt seriously that there are anywhere near 4 million X window users in existance.] What all of this leads up to is that there are currently more people already familiar with the MS-Windows/PM/Motif style of windows environments than the OpenLook environment; even though they are fundamentally similar. (We didn't even mention all of the MacIntosh users in existance.) I did extensive studies on this topic for J.P. Morgan & Co., Dun & Bradstreet, as well as within AT&T. The news is not easy to take, but the truth is the truth. Sun Microsystems has only recently begun to find its way back into my good graces. My experience with them has left me to believe they had a serious quality control problem with both hardware and software. They also have adopted a habit of announcing vaporware several months before a real product is available. HP, on the other hand, announces products that are reliable as well as real, at the time of announcement. I have not had any negative experience with Motif, or HP (hardware or software). Generally, I find that HP is a bit slow in announcements, but when they do come, they are usually REAL and RELIABLE. Finally, it is also my personal opinion that the existing windowing technology is archane; the software technology is still in the stone age by comparison with the hardware technology. User Interfaces in general are clumsy and still in need of further development before anyone should attempt to set a standard. Most every interface is still based on the Desktop Metaphor. This needs to be expanded to other interface metaphors which are more generally acceptable by users who may not be computer literate. Animated user interfaces will play a very important role in the future development of windowing technologies. Summary: If what you term "standard" means what everyone else is doing; then the trend seems to be Motif, based on the programming demands in the job market in the NorthEast area. "Standard" is a relative term; standard for who? You may set your own standard. Traditionally, standards are set by the demands of the majority creating the demand, not by committee as some would have us think. No committee sat down and officially declared MS-Windows a standard on the PC, yet it is generally accepted as the defacto standard for windowing systems and graphical user interfaces in the DOS world. I believe that there is currently enough room for both OpenLook [a really fine product in its own right] and Motif. Neither is a standard; we are talking less than 60,000 end users in the entire world! When one or the other of these interfaces makes its way to other established markets [such as DOS] in a big way, then it may very well be considered a standard. BTW, to be fair to OpenLook, I recently saw Sun give a demonstration of the NEW OpenLook GUI which incorporates a really neat 3D look that surpasses even Motif. Hope this helps -- please no flames -- I take criticism very poorly. Steve -- e-mail: {att!}pjspot!smikes -> Phone: (201) 615-4718 #include <std.disclaimer> "I said it, not my company!" "What ever happened to freedom of speech?"