james@jemez.unm.edu (James Singer) (03/03/91)
Recently there was a post explaining how to use X windows commands in Microsoft Windows.
The suggestion was to use SLIP and an X11 emulation package to send the stuff across
a modem line. My questions are as follows:
1) Will slip work between 2 MS-DOS pc's
2) will I be able to directly access a remote machine's hard drive as if it were
on my own machine(basically an nfs_mount type situation)
3) where can I get the IBM front end, since I know it will work between an IBM and
a SUN
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Girl don't go away mad...Girl just go away! |Yea, right!
| Motley Crue "Don't go away mad" Dr. Feelgood |james@jemez.unm.edu
| ------------------------bob@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Bob F. Breedlove) (03/04/91)
I am currently working on a project that must use TCP/IP across
SLIP (PPL) on HP 300 and 800 series workstations. I am trying
to find someone, several someones, with which to communicate
about this implementation. Please respond by mail. I will
summarize if the findings are of general interest. Thanks.
--
Bob Breedlove SYSOP: BOBsBBS (916/929-7511)
Author: CONFIG.EXE, RUN.EXE, CleanUp.EXE
BATch EXecutive
bob@sactoh0.SAC.CA.USbrad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV (Brad Hines) (03/07/91)
In article <31077@pprg.unm.edu>, james@jemez.unm.edu (James Singer) writes: > 1) Will slip work between 2 MS-DOS pc's > 2) will I be able to directly access a remote machine's hard drive as if it were > on my own machine(basically an nfs_mount type situation) > 3) where can I get the IBM front end, since I know it will work between an IBM and > a SUN I have been exploring this issue rather extensively lately. This information took me a long to to accumulate, making me wish someone had posted something like this before, so I've taken the time to write all this out even though it's long, in hopes that it'll help somebody. First of all, we have been running Graphic Software Systems' PC/Xview here for about a year with pretty good results. It's the only package I've tried, but I've read numerous netters' comments that it's the best of the lot. PC/Xview requires an internet protocol layer to run on top of; we use the FTP software internet package (which is absolutely excellent) which GSS offers bundled with PC/Xview. You have to buy FTP's stuff for a specific adapter (SLIP in your case); we bought the WD8003 package, so I have not tried the FTP SLIP stuff. However, I have been poking around on the net and have discovered some public domain slip stuff. Things I've found are the Clarkson packet drivers, KA9Q, NCSA telnet, the CMU PC/IP package, Stan's Own Server, and Sun's PC-NFS. FTP software has developed a specification for what they call a "packet driver", and and made this spec public domain, and it has become the de facto standard, apparently. The Clarkson packet drivers implement this spec. The idea behind a packet driver is that only the packet driver interfaces to the hardware directly. Applications (e.g., Netware or TCP/IP) interface with the packet driver by telling the packet driver that they'd like to receive all packets of a certain type. The packet driver then examines each incoming packet, decides what type it is, and forwards it to the appropriate application. This makes it possible in theory to run Netware and TCP/IP at the same time, for example. This is the motivation for packet drivers. The Clarkson packet drivers provide drivers for a myriad of interfaces, including SLIP for the PC's com ports. The packet driver is a TSR that you start from the command line. Packet drivers know nothing about internet addresses or routing or the like; the packet driver merely handles the interface to the hardware and forwards the received packets to the appropriate application. KA9Q is a package that has its origins in developing TCP/IP (and other) packet switching for radio links, as far as I can tell. It can interface to the packet driver (or directly to the hardware, if desired), and provides sophisticated TCP/IP facilities. It consists of a command line interface that allows you to start various sessions (e.g., a telnet session, a finger session, an ftp session). You can then switch back and forth between the various sessions and the command line. You can also configure KA9Q to provide IP services like finger, telnet, mail, ftp, etc. My main complaint with KA9Q is that telnet sessions don't seem to do any terminal emulation, so they are of limited usefulness. KA9Q works great as an FTP or telnet server, however (note that the telnet server is not what you might think - it gives the remote user a BBS-style interface to your machine). KA9Q can support multiple simultaneous remote and local sessions. KA9Q is run from the command line, so it does not terminate-and-stay-resident, so you cannot really run anything else on top of it. I have tried KA9Q SLIP (both standalone and with the Clarkson drivers) using a 9600 baud V.32 modem with MNP5 compression, and the round-trip time for a finger operation was generally several seconds for machines that are in the local cluster. Telnetting to local machines results in frequent 1-2 second delays to receive the echo from typed characters. This seems to be a general characteristic of SLIP, not a problem with KA9Q. KA9Q runs in Windows, but the performance seems to degrade (at least on my 33-MHz 386 at 15 kbps or whatever the MNP5 was managing). NCSA telnet, at least as much of it as I've got, is not as diverse in its abilities as KA9Q, but has excellent telnet and ftp abilities. It provides nice terminal emulation and does an excellent job of handling multiple sessions. In addition, it automatically runs a background ftp server for you anytime you run telnet, which is really convenient for getting files between your Unix box and your pc. I have not tested NCSA telnet with SLIP, but I have tested it with the WD8003 Clarkson packet driver. The CMU PC/IP package provides the networking services missing from NCSA telnet. I haven't really fiddled much with this one, as I haven't found up-to-date docs for it yet. I think it will run on top of the Clarkson packet drivers, but it's not clear. They seem to want you to use it with their own device driver, which they require you to put into config.sys, which must be "customized" with your particular Internet configuration info, using a program they provide called custom. Stan's Own Server is something I've only read about, but it appears to be the only way to make your pc into an nfs file server. It probably runs on top of the Clarkson packet drivers. PC-NFS, from Sun, provides a SLIP interface and all your favorite network services, including ftp and telnet. Supposedly, it also allows you to do nfs file sharing "if you have a reliable connection." However, although my modem connection was reliable (MNP4 error correction), PC-NFS has always refused to remote mount our Sun's disks. I don't know why. In general, the PC-NFS SLIP stuff was flaky and the documentation is disorderly (the ethernet-based stuff works reliably, however). However, the SLIP software that I ran on the Sun for all these configurations was part of the PC-NFS package, and the Sun end seems to work reliably and work well. Public domain implementations of SLIP for Unix are available (check uunet.uu.net), but I have not experimented with these. I have not yet mentioned how I set up the SLIP connection. The SLIP connection must be up and running before you can use any of these network packages. PC-NFS contains a very simple terminal emulation program, enough to dial in to the host machine and get SLIP started, but it does not work reliably. All the other packages seem to require som external effort to get the SLIP connection up. I usually go into Procomm Plus, dial up, log in, and type /etc/sunslip. The Sun prints out that it is starting the SLIP connection. Then I exit Procomm Plus (without hanging up the modem), and start the Clarkson packet driver, then I run KA9Q or NCSA telnet (or you can just run KA9Q without the packet driver if you like, since it contains its own packet driver). (I cannot use PC-NFS this way, because it handles the packets itself with drivers you must install in your config.sys). The SLIP link on the Sun end is sensitive to whether or not SLIP is running on the other end. Every 15-30 seconds, it seems, the TX/RX lights on my modem flash even if I'm doing nothing. This means that KA9Q or NCSA telnet (not just the packet driver) must be started before too long after you've started SLIP on the Sun end, or the Sun will hang up. I've also noticed that the performance of the link seems to degrade if you wait too long after starting sunslip to start the pc SLIP; sunslip must be doing some sort of adaptation to the character of the connection. The best results I've gotten, with ftp directly to the machine on the other end of the SLIP connection, were about 4800 bps average transmission rate with a 9600 bps modem (for already compressed files, so the MNP5 didn't help). I don't know what the delays are. There are frequent intervals when the modem's TX/RX lights will not flash for a second at a time. It is not clear to me what is going on in this situation. My unfortunate situation is that PC/Xview can support both PC-NFS and and FTP software stuff, but the PC-NFS SLIP stuff doesn't seem to work, while the FTP stuff that I have is for the WD8003 card (and I can't justify buying their SLIP stuff without seeing it in action with X windows). So for now, I guess I'll just run NCSA telnet over my modem. Also, with the slow response of the SLIP connection (often 1-2 second delays), X would probably be impractical unless I can get the baud rate up to 57.6 kbps or so. Where to look for this stuff: grape.ecs.clarkson.edu simtel20.army.mil (or wuarchive.wustl.edu, a mirror that is generally faster) Try the msdos/tcpip, msdos/ka9q, and msdos/ncsatelnet directories. In summary, I think the answer to all your questions above is yes. The only thing you might have trouble with is the X stuff. Several companies make X-for-Windows software, although I've heard that none are as good as the non-Windows PC/Xview. If I were determined to make X run on SLIP, and if I were starting from scratch, I would run PC/Xview on top of FTP software's transport layer (you can even buy the whole thing bundled from GSS). If Windows is important, however, here are products you might want to look into: PC-Xvision from Visionware, distributed by Unipress: 201-985-8000 X11/AT from Integrated Inference Machines: 714-978-6776 If you want to check out the GSS stuff, they are at 503-641-2200, and FTP is at 617-246-0900. -- Brad Hines Internet: brad@huey.jpl.nasa.gov Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena, California
brad@huey.Jpl.Nasa.GOV (Brad Hines) (03/07/91)
Well, not 5 minutes after I posted that last article, I received e-mail announcing the release of Sun PC-NFS 3.5, so maybe some of the PC-NFS problems are fixed now... -- Brad Hines Internet: brad@huey.jpl.nasa.gov Jet Propulsion Lab, Pasadena, California