os9@cbdkc1.UUCP (05/27/87)
OS-9 Discussions Wednesday, May 27th 1987 Volume 3 : Issue 10
Today's Topics:
Os9 for the ST from Microware?
Re: Microware response
Re: OS-9 Discussions, V3 #9
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Date: Sun, 24 May 87 17:31:58 EST
From: pur-ee!mckay (Dwight D McKay)
Subject: Os9 for the ST from Microware?
I'm told by the folks on the OS9 sig on Compuserve that Microware has taken
over support of OS9 for the Atari ST after TLM went broke. Does anyone know
the ansers to the following questions:
- When will Microware's release of OS9 for the ST be available?
- Where can I get it? Direct from Microware?
- What harddisks does it support?
- Will it come with (or have as an option) windows?
Many thanks in advance for the answers! I'm looking forward to a *REAL*
operating system for this ST of mine!
--Dwight Mckay, ECN Workstation Software Support
[arpanet: mckay@ee.ecn.purdue.edu, usenet: ...ihnp4!pur-ee!mckay]
[Compu-serve: 75776,1521, office: EE 348B, phone: (317) 494-3561]
Date: 26 May 1987 2241-CDT (Tuesday)
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From: sun!mcrware!kim (Kim Kempf)
Subject: Re: Microware response
John, here is the latest status of the Microware Atari-St port:
>Subject: Os9 for the ST from Microware?
>
>I'm told by the folks on the OS9 sig on Compuserve that Microware has taken
>over support of OS9 for the Atari ST after TLM went broke. Does anyone know
>the ansers to the following questions:
>
> - When will Microware's release of OS9 for the ST be available?
The TLM port has been cleaned up here and the new release (V2.1 of 68k) will
be incorporated. It was more difficult than expected to clean up the code
to meet our standards, thus the delay.
> - Where can I get it? Direct from Microware?
It can be ordered initially by direct mail from Microware. Later, it will be
available from selected Atari software distributors. Contact the Microware
sales department for cost and ordering information.
> - What harddisks does it support?
The "shoe-box" looking disk that comes from Atari.
> - Will it come with (or have as an option) windows?
Initially, only selected hooks to GEM will be available. Later, the OS-9
graphics environment will be ported (X-based windows).
Kim Kempf
Date: Tue, 26 May 87 21:40:11 EDT
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From: jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura)
Subject: Re: OS-9 Discussions, V3 #9
Summary: BIX and Byte and OS-9
Organization: Consultant, Toronto
[Moderator's Note: I was impressed by this retort to the general direction
of comments discussing the current best home(s) for OS/9 support. I have
been bothered by the lack of coverage by BYTE about OS/9. I was one of the
first subscribers to BYTE and have a complete set of issues up to last year.
My reasons for dropping the subscription included the feeling that BYTE was
becoming IBM PC compatible blind. Then, they came out with the 68000 issue
and columns for the ST, Mac, and Amiga ... Sigh. Jim's reasoned retort to
our ravings, "Let's take our marbles to another magazine or network." is to
say "Let's let them know we are here and want coverage!" I like this much
more positive approach to the situation. Thanks Jim O! - JDD]
I suppose it's about time I posted a reply to the current feelings
expressed about OS-9 and Byte Magazine. I'm writing this off the
top of my head, but my reading of computer magazines generally stretches
back pretty far. I think I still have some as far back as '77, although
I didn't get heavily into computers and didn't follow any regular buying
patterns until around '81 - '83 (when I bought my first computer). The
early stuff wasn't even computer magazines per se. My point is to put
Byte coverage and OS-9'er antipathy into perspective.
Early on, the most successful computer magazines were Byte, Dr. Dobb's
and Creative Computing. There were a raft of others, but these, throughout
the hay-day of computer magazines were the "name brands". Byte and
Creative were well known popularizers and developed followings among
home computer buyers. Dr. Dobb's was the "hacker elite" magazine. Byte
later became more oriented to "business" computing. Creative was strongly
into the home computer market as soon as there was such a thing. The
home market wasn't operating system oriented, so we'll leave it aside.
The various magazines started mostly by publishing material submitted
by their readers. Each in time started to gravitate to various niches.
Dr. Dobb's was the king of publishers of public domain listings. They
found that a substantial amount was CP/M. At some point in the history
many of the magazines decided that the industry had reached a crossroads
and that "for the industry to survive" standards had to be adopted. That
was a black day for Motorola users. The biggest magazines came out in
favour of CP/M and S-100 buss. I believe that Byte came out editorially
in favour of this standard, but I'm not entirely sure. Certainly Jerry
Pournelle favored it (Please don't start saying I'm at war with Jerry
because I'm not), but people wrongly ascribe Jerry's positions to Byte
and they are not necessarily one and the same.
OK, so despite the fact that Flex and OS-9 were growing in the SS-50
world, you didn't seem much of it in Byte. Byte readers weren't submitting
SS-50 stuff and most importantly *Byte had no reason to believe* that
there was as strong an interest in SS-50 stuff according to their knowledge
of their own readers. SS-50 people drifted off to different magazines
and "the grudge" started.
History slammed the door on CP/M development when IBM came along with
MS-DOS. A bit of development is still done on CP/M, but very little beyond
it's home territory of 8080's and Z-80's which are still stuck with single
tasking 64K software for the most part. Flex in the mean time couldn't
translate its success in the 64K system size into the greater than 64K
systems with Uniflex. Whether Tandy shut the door on Flex with their choice
of OS-9 is fairly hard to say, but it's clear that OS-9 has become dominant
between the two. Still, what were Byte readers using? Well, for the
most part, they were mainly MS-DOS people with some hangers on from the
CP/M world. OS-9'er had left Byte and were reading 68 Micro Journal,
Rainbow and a few other magazines. But times are changing.
OS-9 is sort of locked into a world right now of people who either
know about OS-9 by word of mouth, or by having used it on the Color Computer.
Very little is available on the book shelves or magazine racks which will
bring OS-9 to the forefront. Microware's advertising has been mainly geared
to converting Unix people for the last few years (I think they are mainly
advertising in Unix World now--not sure). It's my opinion that this isn't
a really effective approach to gaining market share. This is an important
matter. If OS-9 systems don't grow in sales, then OS-9 commercial systems
will eventually fall prey to the "millions of programs" litany and name
brand recognition of MS-DOS systems. You can't sell much to someone who
has everything they need, which is the ultimate goal of most of us computer-
ists. After I bought my 68020 system, that was pretty much "it". It's
unlikely that Microware will be able to sell me much. After I buy Sculptor,
it's unlikely that I'll buy another database manager. Sorry guys, but
that's pretty much all I need. Don't expect to make money off me if you
write another database manager, EVEN IF IT'S BETTER than Sculptor.
If I'm a reflection of the average buyer, and I believe I am, then
what you have to realize is that OS-9 must look to NEW users. Right now,
the biggest source of OS-9 users is Color Computer users. Well, what if
the Shack folds up the CoCo? Certainly they haven't pushed the sale of
the CoCo3 as much as they could. Why should they? Their money has come
from the *easier* sales of PC clones. I do not believe that it's a safe
situation. Microware must seek out new markets actively. OS-9'er who
want to have new products to choose from will have to help attract interst
in OS-9 rather than simply patting each other on the back.
Furthermore, times have changed at Byte magazine. Unless you are
wearing blinders, you can't help but notice the extensive coverage of
68K systems. The big selling machines (ST, Amiga and Mac) are constantly
there and many lesser selling systems are also covered. A better
place to start building OS-9 users can't be found. So, why isn't
OS-9 covered in Byte right now? Same reason as before. Byte publishes
what Byte readers want to read about. So far, there has been no
*demonstrated* interest in OS-9 by Byte readers. BIX as a relative
of Bytes is much the same. OS-9 participation has come *in spite* of
the fact that the majority of Byte readers haven't heard of OS-9
before. OS-9 participation has come *in spite* of "the grudge".
It is my belief that BIX participation is a good way of promoting
OS-9 in a new market. Further, that activity in the OS-9 group will
show Byte that there is a substantial interest in OS-9 sufficient to
bring coverage of OS-9 in terms of articles.
And there's more: BIX is becoming the main contact point for foreign
OS-9'er. You should notice that of the major participants in the BIX
OS-9 group, there is only Bob Santy as a regular. Heavy postings have
been made by participants from China, Germany, England and Canada (that's
me by the way, I'm posting from Canada). In BIX generally this is
also the case with heavy postings from Isreal, northern Europe and Japan.
Strong participation in the BIX OS-9 group shows the *world* that
OS-9 is worth looking at.
Anyway, I'd like to point out that I have nothing against the CIS
and Delphi participation. I would if I could (time wise and money wise).
I can't right now. I just think that it's time to forget "the grudge",
which is essentially looking to the past, and look to the future.
Cheers! -- Jim O.
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
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The views expressed in OS-9 Discussions are those of the individual authors
only. Copies of digests are available by mail request.
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Moderator: John Daleske cbosgd!cbdkc1!daleske daleske@cbdkc1.ATT.COM
Submissions should go to: cbosgd!os9 os9@cbosgd.ATT.COM
Comments to the moderator cbosgd!os9-request os9-request@cbosgd.ATT.COM
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