spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford) (07/29/87)
[The following originally appeared on the SECURITY mailing list ...] As a matter of principle, I'm one of those people who won't give out my social security number when applying for utilities or credit cards. The reasons why have been discussed numerous times in various security-related groups. It is my understanding that it is against the law to force someone to give his/her social security number unless it is a government agency; although I've often run into occasional resistance, a few moments of explanation has usually resulted in things working out okay. Then there's today. I'm moving to W. Lafayette Indiana in two weeks and I called to establish my phone service there. Indiana is served by GTE for phone service. I did not anticipate any problems since I have an excellent credit history, as could be verified by a quick check with the local Southern Bell folks. After the rep at GTE took all my information down, she asked for my SS#. I explained that I don't give that out. She informed me that I would be required to pay a $75 deposit if I refused to give my SS#. So, I asked to talk to her supervisor. Her supervisor repeated that I would have to give my SS# to waive the deposit. I asked if they could simply call Southern Bell or take a credit card #, or they could call Purdue and verify my employment. He said that wasn't enough -- I had to supply my SS#, no other option. I enquired as to why they needed it -- he said it was for a credit check and to verify future disconnect requests. I explained that they could do that self-same credit check without the SS# *and* I don't give out my SS# precisely because I don't want it used as a verification number on my account. He insisted I either supply the number or pay the deposit. He also asked why I was being so stubborn -- it was even on my driver's license, wasn't it? (It isn't -- and hasn't been. In Georgia, you have always had the option of having a different ID, and now the licenses are being issue with those as default. The guy at GTE claims that the Indiana licenses are *required* to have the SS# on them -- anyone know if this is true? It shouldn't be...) I explained that having done some work in computer security, and personal experience, I know how that number can be abused. He said I was the only person he'd ever run into to refuse to give the SS# (!). I then asked him if the requirement for a SS# was written policy -- I wanted a copy to examine. He informed me that such information was private to the company and I couldn't have a copy -- didn't I trust him? I then asked if that policy was on file with the state Public Service Commission. At that he (rather loudly) asked if I wanted service with GTE or not? I asked him very calmly if he was threatening to deny me service -- he quieted down. I next explained that I wanted to see a copy of the written policy because it would be interesting to include in an article I might write on improper use of SS#s. He became very quiet. I offered to find the name and number of someone at Southern Bell who could verify my 9 years of service here. He said to call back with that information (thankful to get rid of me, I guess). The lady I talked to at Southern Bell was very helpful. She informed me that all the Southern Bell operators are told not to force a SS# because it is against both policy and law, but if someone won't provide it they are to get a bank account # or credit card number (both of which I am willing to give in circumstances such as this). She was more than willing to talk to the supervisor at GTE and give him a credit reference, if only he'd call. She said she'd also fill him in on policy. *AND*, most interestingly, Southern Bell had somehow obtained my SS# through other means and it was on file, but she marked it so that it was not to be given out to anyone, specifically not anyone with GTE Indiana. :-) Back to GTE. I called the supervisor (collect, of course) and gave him the name and number of the lady at Southern Bell. He was very curt and said he'd probably still require a deposit. He hung up on me. 20 minutes later the original GTE operator called me back and cheerily informed me that my service would be turned on August 4 with *no* deposit required! Questions --------- 1) Do many of you (net-readers) withhold your SS# in similar circumstances? Do you have these kinds of confrontations too? 2) Anyone know if other people at GTE Indiana are such jerks, or is this an isolated instance? 3) Anyone know if Indiana does, in fact, *require* that the SS# be on the driver's license? 4) Should I bother to follow-up on this further? That is, should I bother contacting the Public Service commission in Indiana about the treatment I received? (I'm currently not sure it is worth the effort). Too bad we don't have a choice of phone companies as well as long distance carriers -- I'd keep Southern Bell. Gene Spafford
taylor@hplabsz.UUCP (08/06/87)
> I also dislike giving out my SS#. Schools want it, hospitals and doctors > want it, just so they can have a unique number to classify me under. No biggy, but SSNs aren't unique. Years back I worked for Occidental Life (a Transamerica co) and found that they didn't use SSNs alone as a primary key due to collisions. Ken Shrum hplabs!hpldola!kens
tedm@hpldola.HP.COM (Ted Manahan) (08/06/87)
I also don't give out my SSN except for financial transactions (stock sale, bank accounts, etc.). I have had problems with people like the manager you refer to. When I wanted to pay for an oil change with a check, my SSN was required. It took over 15 minutes to convince them to take my VISA number instead! That garage doesn't get my business any more. Ted Manahan hplabs!hpldola!tedm