andrew@trlamct.oz (Andrew Jennings) (09/09/87)
It seems to me that with the prevalence of electronic mail and document description languages like PostScript, it shouldn't be that difficult to set up a net_journal. This would be a net version of the scholarly journals that clutter library shelves. In printed form it would probably be indistinguishable from the printing-press version. The idea would be that by using e-mail for all of the stages of reviewing, assembling and distribution of the journal the whole process could be speeded up by several orders of magnitude. Authors would submit to an editor their texts. He/she would then arrange for review. Once the journal is assembled it could then be sent (by e-mail or by ordinary post) to people who have paid a nominal charge for subscription. (First objection : anyone can get hold of a copy for free. Answer : this can be done now with photocopiers). I've had this thought for quite a while. It seems strange to me that no-one has tried it. Maybe there is a pitfall in this that I have not anticipated. In any case I'm interested in the feasibility of the propositition. Andrew Jennings
cje@topaz.rutgers.edu (Chris Jarocha-Ernst) (09/12/87)
Andrew Jennings writes about computer based journals, but misses certain key points: If you're going to send PostScript code, subscribers are at the mercy of the speed of their printers (assuming they have them, otherwise they wouldn't be subscribing to such a journal). If you're going to send ASCII text, you seriously limit the type of info that can be included in articles. Regarding reviewing and assembling, this is still a good idea and is even happening now, what with journals accepting TeX files. > Once the journal is assembled it could then be sent (by e-mail or by > ordinary post) to people who have paid a nominal charge for subscription. Subscribers must also eat the cost of printing the thing (incl. maintenance of the equipment). I would imagine that libraries make up a large subset of journal subscribers, and such a scheme prevents any library without the bucks to spend on the appropriate equipment from getting the journal. > (First objection : anyone can get hold of a copy for free. Answer : this > can be done now with photocopiers). Yes, but at different costs. The cost to me to copy a file and print it is much less than the cost of my standing over a photocopier, including the costs of both my time and the printing process. So a "free" electronic copy costs me less than a "free" photocopy. Given that, I'd expect more people to copy the thing than subscribe to it. Plus, there's the problem of forgery and related evils. I could modify the received electronic journal to, say, include my name in an article (to impress a prospective employer who likely won't take the time to check another copy of the journal) or to change some of the report (I intercept the mailing intended for a hated colleague in order to sabotage his or her research). Admittedly, I can do the same with a traditionally printed journal, but again, the cost to me to do such a thing is much less with an electronic journal than with a printed one. Chris Jarocha-Ernst
chuq@sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (09/14/87)
Andrew Jennings writes: > It seems to me that with the prevalence of electronic mail and document > description languages like PostScript, it shouldn't be that difficult to > set up a net_journal. Speaking as someone who HAS done this, Andy is significantly understating the problems. It is a lot more work than you might think. > In printed form it would probably be indistinguishable from the > printing-press version. It depends. if it something like SIGPLAN from ACM, maybe. Once you get into photos, graphics, illustrations, or any non-text material, you've got major problems -- in size of the distribution, in compatibility, and in reproduction quality, just to name three. Lots of people have Postscript printers, but be aware that lots != most by a large margin. and the hassles of trying to scan in all the photos and art at a decent resolution and the size of storing a 2Meg bitmap for each page of graphics would be truly amazing. And at the same time you significantly limit the target audience because only those folks who have postscript printers (and the very base level of compatibility -- there are other, less obvious compatibilities, too: for instance, what if you use fonts only on a LW+, or want to use Bodoni?). > The idea would be that by using e-mail for all of the stages of reviewing, > assembling and distribution of the journal the whole process could be > speeded up by several orders of magnitude. This is definitely true. OtherRealms couldn't exist without help from E-mail, since I don't have to spend lots of time re-entering articles by hand (although that's starting to change now that I'm getting more and more material from 'outside') > Authors would submit to an editor their texts. He/she would then arrange > for review. Once the journal is assembled it could then be sent (by e-mail > or by ordinary post) to people who have paid a nominal charge for subscription Two problems: o just try to get someone to pay you for something they got off the net. trust me. You either give it away, or you don't mail it. Or get used to the term "piracy" o editing via computer is much different than traditional editing. It's too far off the subject to go into detail but "arrange for review" is amazingly simplistic > (First objection : anyone can get hold of a copy for free. Answer : this > can be done now with photocopiers). If they have an original. Which means that you get one subscription per organization, at least. And copying of paper documents isn't nearly as guilt free as copying from the network. There is a perceived value here, which is a moral issue about copying and piracy. > I've had this thought for quite a while. It seems strange to me that no-one > has tried it. Maybe there is a pitfall in this that I have not anticipated. Um, subscribe to rec.mag.otherrealms and wait for the next issue. or send me mail for the latest issue. chuq
phssra@emory.UUCP (Scott R. Anderson) (09/15/87)
With regard to Andrew Jennings and computer based journals: This is already being done to some extent by several journals. The Physical Review, published by the American Institute of Physics, has been accepting articles submitted as troff source for several years. There is an incentive of 50% off of the page charges if this format is used. Last time I checked, articles had to be sent on tape via USNail. Another journal that is very much on top of things is Complex Systems, edited by Stephen Wolfram at the University of Illinois. The articles can be in LaTeX format, and figures can be in PostScript. They can be submitted via electronic mail to Arpanet, Bitnet, Csnet, or UUCP addresses. I'm not sure if the reviewing process for Complex Systems uses electronic mail, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did *if* they knew the reviewer had the appropriate output capabilities. Unfortunately, the slow link in the reviewing process is not the exchange, but the reviewers themselves :-), so this is probably not very important. As for final distribution, it would probably be much more expensive to distribute a journal via e-mail rather than USNail; many of them are very large. There are certainly some advantages, though, from the point of view of searching for articles of interest, if the journal is electronically stored. Scott R. Anderson
taylor@hplabsz.UUCP (10/15/87)
It is my impression that the people who do most of the work for most academic journals do not get paid. Several publishers of specialized journals charge outragous prices for them. This is understandable when you realize that they have to pay typesetters, secretaries, etc. and that their circulation is small, but it still makes it impossible for me to subscribe to the journal. The reviewers and editors are usually professors and get paid in prestige instead of money. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Thus, it seems like electronic distribution of journals would be ideal, if there were a way to archive them properly. I suppose that libraries could simply print them and bind them themselves, but it would be better to put them on an optical disk of some kind where they could be accessed by computer. People who don't have the necessary equipment to print the journals themselves could simply pay whatever it costs to have some clerical person at the "publishing" university print it and mail it. This should certainly be no more than it costs at present.