woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (05/14/84)
Chuqui has hit the nail on the head: we *should* delete new topics that don't make the grade, "WHATEVER THE GRADE IS DEFINED TO BE" (words Chuq's, emphasis mine). I think we need to determine some sort of rigid criteria for newsgroup survival. I personally agree with Chuq about wobegon, why should one radio show have its own top-level group? I remember the screams when someone created net.gdead and the Deadheads started using it. Somehow, that group got killed off, and now the Dead articles are buried in the morass that has become net.music, which I no longer have time to read. Therefore, because people so adamantly oppose both the creation and deletion of newsgroups, I miss many articles I might like to read, just because I don't have hours every night to 'n' the other articles. I personally feel we need *more* groups. Therefore, I make the following suggestions, first admitting my almost total ignorance of how the news software really works, and hence I don't know if there are good reasons for not doing some of these: 1) Increase the limit on the number of newsgroups, together with making the readnews search of this mysterious "active" file more efficient (how about sorting the active file so efficient binary searches could be used by readnews?). This might help eliminate some of the objections to creation of subgroups. 2) Implement Adam Bushbaum's recent comment: when a new topic is created, see if there is an old one that could be deleted to make room for it. 3) Discourage creation of very specific top-level newsgroups (such as net.wobegon or net.gdead), while encouraging the creation of subgroups for active topics that fit naturally on the newsgroup tree (such as net.music.rock and net.sport.baseball), thus *encouraging* discussion of less common topics due to less articles that have to be 'n'ed in the parent group (like jazz in net.music or tae kwan do in net.sport). 4) (Enter flame-attraction mode) Implement some sort of automatic deletion of newsgroups after a certain period without use and/or with minimal use, and with manual intervention in cases where multiple groups exist for the same topic (as in the net.music and net.records debate). Also, avoid creation of groups like this. 5) (more flames) ORGANIZE THE CREATION OF NEWSGROUPS. While this may sound like USENET, Inc., that isn't what I am suggesting. I'm not sure exactly what it is I *am* suggesting here, I'd just like to get the creative juices flowing. I would like to see some small group of people, maybe just one at a time, be responsible for creating and deleting newsgroups. Maybe we could elect a Newsgroup monitor with voting by Email? Maybe this is a rotten idea, but almost anything would be better than the endless, boring debates (with the same people always on each side of an issue, myself included) that usually result in someone unilaterally creating the wrong group, as in net.music.classical. What we really needed was net.music.rock, so that net.music wouldn't be swamped with rock articles, stifling discussion of other types. Creating net.music.classical solves the problem for classical music types, but what about jazz? Blues? They will still be swamped, and there are still too many articles in net.music for me to read (the recent summary I saw in mod.ber claimed over 20 articles a day!). What we really need is some sort of clearly stated, easily appliable rules for creation and deletion of groups. I have some ideas, and if I ever have time, I will post some of them in a future posting, but this is getting long. GREG -- {ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!stcvax | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!stcvax} !hao!woods "Will we leave this place an empty stone?"
alb@alice.UUCP (05/15/84)
A few comments on Greg's comments: 1) Unless you remove the order of presentation from the active file, you cannot force any one method of sorting that file on any site. People must be free (well, in this case, sites as a whole) to choose how they want their news presented. 2) I don't remember making that comment?? I've said in the past that BEFORE a group is created, see if there is already an existing one that would suit its needs. In many cases, there is one. Adam
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) (05/16/84)
Sorry, Adam, I forgot that some of the features of our "readnews" are local hacks. In particluar, on our system, articles are presented to each user in the order that s/he has them in the .newsrc file. This allows sorting of groups on an individual basis. Since it was done here, ipso facto it can be done. And I am fairly certain that I did read something to the effect that if we create a new group, we should look for an old one that could be deleted in one of your articles somewhere. GREG -- {ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!stcvax | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!stcvax} !hao!woods "Will we leave this place an empty stone?"