steve@teletron.UUCP (05/27/87)
We would like to know the general specifications for MAP
& TOP. Can anyone provide us the information ?
Thank you in advance.
stevefair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (06/07/87)
I attended a talk on MAP (the Manufacturering Automation Protocol) last fall and came away with two observations: 1. MAP is simply a packaging of the ISO protocol suite on top of an IEEE 802.2 (or was that 802.4?) token passing broadband LAN. 2. There are (if you use the ISO Reference Model terminology) NO application protocol standards within MAP. That is to say that you can get the bits from your computer to that robot on the factory floor, but there is no standard for interpretation of what the bits mean. The MAP specification comes mostly from General Motors, and thus they should be able to provide documentation for it. Can anyone explain what TOP (the Technical Office Protocol) suite is about, and whose idea it was? Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu
sas@pyramid.UUCP (06/07/87)
In article <19266@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> fair@ucbarpa.Berkeley.EDU (Erik E. Fair) writes: >I attended a talk on MAP (the Manufacturering Automation Protocol) >last fall and came away with two observations: > >1. MAP is simply a packaging of the ISO protocol suite on top of an > IEEE 802.2 (or was that 802.4?) token passing broadband LAN. > MAP 2.1 specifies IEEE 802.4 broadband token bus at the physical layer with the appropriate Media Access Control (MAC) service underneath IEEE 802.2 logical link control at the data link layer. The recent exchanges between DEC and GM leave uncertain the future physical media. A MAP demonstration at the Hannover Fair earlier this year showed MAP additionally running on carrierband 802.4 and IEEE 802.3 (CSMA/CD baseband => "Ethernet"). >2. There are (if you use the ISO Reference Model terminology) NO > application protocol standards within MAP. That is to say that > you can get the bits from your computer to that robot on the > factory floor, but there is no standard for interpretation of > what the bits mean. MAP 2.1 specifies three application layer protocols: a subset of FTAM, a Common Application Service Elements (CASE) kernel, and a Manufacturing Message Format Standard (MMFS called "memphis"). The latter is the service that is used to manipulate the equipment on the floor. MAP 3.0 is supposedly going to include a successor to MMFS which is called Manufacturing Message Service (MMS). I believe that MMS derives from an EIA standard. MAP 3.0 is supposed to also include support for Network Management and Directory Services definitions as well as a more complete FTAM definition. Inclusion of Network Management and Directory Services is interesting in that the international standards are not near completion. > >The MAP specification comes mostly from General Motors, and thus they >should be able to provide documentation for it. Well, they do. Unfortunately, it now seems that they charge for the documentation. I got a free copy a year and a half ago. I recently tried to get a new copy from MAP Support Group at GM using the address I used last time. What I got back was a series of glossies on the MAP/TOP User's Group, the Society of Manufacturing Engineers (which is the MAP Secretariat), etc. On one of the glossies was listed the documents available from SME. MAP 2.2 specs are listed at $25. They can be had from: MAP & TOP One SME Drive, PO Box 930 Dearborn, MI 48121 USA (313) 271-1500 > >Can anyone explain what TOP (the Technical Office Protocol) suite is >about, and whose idea it was? According to the Preface to V1.0 of the TOP spec: "Its (TOP) objective is to establish a uniform set of protocols for office data communications, supporting computers and other intelligent devices in a multi-vendor enviroment." The Boeing Company is primary commercial force behind TOP. TOP seems to me to be a weak sister to MAP in that GM has spend much more time and money and advertising effort in order to advance their (i.e., MAP) cause. Until recently, one could call TOP "MAP on Ethernet". TOP V3.0 (there was no V2.0) was recently released and is supposed to support X.25, token bus, and token ring (802.5) as alternate lower layers. I don't think that V3.0 specs are fully available yet; I'm getting this information from an April issue of _Computerworld_. With the current hoo-hah between DEC and MAP regarding the suitability of token bus versus Ethernet, it seems to me that the main difference between MAP and TOP as they mature will be at the application layer -- which, I believe, is as it should be. TOP specs are also listed in my glossy at $25 and are available at the same address as above. [ Most of my information is derived from articles in _Data Communications_, the TOP spec, and what I can remember from attending a MAP/TOP User's Group last year. ] > > Erik E. Fair ucbvax!fair fair@ucbarpa.berkeley.edu sas ---- Scott Schoenthal Pyramid Technology Corp. pyramid!sas Mountain View, California
moto@ucbcad.UUCP (06/09/87)
MAP/TOP are part of quite a large effort to get different machines to "play" together. Some of the emerging standards in the area are EDIF, IGES, VHDL. They each serve as "application" layers in the MAP/TOP terminology, but the function is to get ways to send designs. EDIF (the one I am most familiar with) is intended to allow a user to transfer Electronic (IC/PCB) designs between different CAD systems. Try comp.lsi for more info, or write the EDIF Administration Office for mor info. EDIF Administration office 2222 South Dobson Road, Bldg 5 Mesa, AZ 85203 Mike Waters .
alvitar@madhat.UUCP (Phil Harbison) (06/09/87)
In article <19266@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, Erik E. Fair writes: > > 1. MAP is simply a packaging of the ISO protocol suite on top of an > IEEE 802.2 (or was that 802.4?) token passing broadband LAN. This is true, but in all fairness to GM, they did push hard to get the ISO standards nearer to completion. > Can anyone explain what TOP (the Technical Office Protocol) suite is > about, and whose idea it was? > I believe TOP originated at Boeing. At least they seem to be in charge of its development. -- Live: Phil Harbison USPS: 3409 Grassfort Drive, Huntsville, AL 35805-5421 Uucp: {clyde,uunet}!madhat!alvitar Bell: 205-881-4317
johnk@hcx1.SSD.HARRIS.COM (06/09/87)
Re: MAP and TOP specs: Here's some address that should help you out: For MAP info and specs: General Motors Corporation Manufacturing Engineering and Development Advanced Product and Manufacturing Engineering Staff (APMES), APMES A/MD - 39 GM Technical Center Warren, MI 48090-9040 For TOP info and specs: Boeing Computer Services Network Services Group P.O. Box 24346, M/S 7C-16 Seattle, WA 98124-0346 If these are not the most current, at least they will be able to point you in the right direction. Another handy source is the Society of Manufacturing Engineers, who are coordinating the MAP/TOP Users' Group: Manufacturing Automation Protocol & Technical and Office Protocol Users Group of SME One SME Drive P.O. Box 930 Dearborn, MI 48121 Phone (313) 271-1500 If I have more time in the next few days, maybe I'll post what I know about these protocols (there seems to be a huge lack of knowledge out there about MAP and TOP). ----------------------------------------------------------------- John J. Krawczyk UUCP: johnk@hcx1.ssd.harris.com Harris Computer Systems 2101 W. Cypress Creek Road Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33309