mroger@cc.uofm.CDN (Michael Rogers) (04/28/88)
I've been trying to get the AlisaTalk file server software to work using the KIP gateway code rather than the Ethertalk code as supplied. Things seem to work initially (I can see the names of the disks on our vax from the mac) however when I try to mount one of the disks, the mount fails. Is anyone running Alisatalk with KIP? If so, were there any problems that you encountered. (or are these products known to be incompatible). I have tested NCSA telnet and that is working using KIP so I assume (probably incorrectly) that KIP was installed correctly. I have, however, determined that the K-box is not responding to ZIP query packets. Is this clue? Mike Rogers Dept of Computer Science U of Manitoba Bitnet: mroger@UOFMCC.bitnet Compu$erve: 76515,3372
wgreene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William H. Greene) (04/29/88)
In article <136*mroger@cc.uofm.cdn>, mroger@cc.uofm.CDN (Michael Rogers) writes: > I've been trying to get the AlisaTalk file server software to work using the > KIP gateway code rather than the Ethertalk code as supplied. Things seem > to work initially (I can see the names of the disks on our vax from the mac) > however when I try to mount one of the disks, the mount fails. > > Is anyone running Alisatalk with KIP? If so, were there any problems > that you encountered. (or are these products known to be incompatible). > I have tested NCSA telnet and that is working using KIP so I assume > (probably incorrectly) that KIP was installed correctly. I have, however, > determined that the K-box is not responding to ZIP query packets. Is this > clue? I assume you are using the 1/88 version of KIP in order to get support for EtherTalk. We tried exactly what you describe and our results were identical to yours. Things seem to work until we try to mount the remote disks. Your observation that the K-box is not responding to ZIP packets is interesting... we haven't tried to track down the source of the problem yet. We have noticed another peculiarlity with the K-boxes running KIP 1/88 with EtherTalk turned on. When we use the Chooser from a different LocalTalk segment to select a printer on the LocalTalk segment attached to the K-box in question the results are erratic. LaserWriters appear then disappear, the reappear again in the Chooser window. Anyone noticed similar behavior ? When we turn EtherTalk off on that K-box, everything is fine. I would appreciate help on either of these problems. If someone can suggest some experiments to try that isolate the problem, I'd be interested in trying them. Bill Greene
cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) (04/29/88)
we had the same problem, no ZIP packets and not even a sign from the vms box that the k-box was passing ANY ethertalk packets at all... sigh, I just went back to the combined gateway code from kinetics -ec cetron@cs.utah.edu
DEMARSEE@SUVM.BITNET ("Darryl E. Marsee") (04/29/88)
>We have noticed another peculiarlity with the K-boxes running KIP 1/88 >with EtherTalk turned on. When we use the Chooser from a different >LocalTalk segment to select a printer on the LocalTalk segment attached >to the K-box in question the results are erratic. LaserWriters appear >then disappear, the reappear again in the Chooser window. Anyone noticed >similar behavior ? When we turn EtherTalk off on that K-box, everything >is fine. I have seen the same sort of problem occuring from our ethernet-based Macs. We have both a MacII w/EtherTalk and a MacSE w/EtherPortSE on the same ethernet with the K-box. When both Macs are on the ethernet, using the Chooser from either one produces the problem described above. If I take the MacSE off the ethernet and leave the MacII on it, the problem still occurs when using the Chooser from the MacII. However, if I take the MacII off the ethernet and leave the MacSE on it, the problem disappears when using the Chooser from the MacSE. In all cases, the EtherTalk setting for the K-box is on. Regards, __ _ __ _ _ _ / ) // / ` ' ) ) ) / / __. __ __ __ , // /-- / / / __. __ _ _ _ /__/_(_/|_/ (_/ (_/ (_/_</_ (___, o / ' (_(_/|_/ (_/_)_</_</_ / ' Systems Programmer "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg." Syracuse University ______ BITNET: demarsee@suvm / | INTERNET: demarsee@suvm.acs.syr.edu | | CSNET: demarsee%suvm.acs.syr.edu@relay.cs.net _________/ | UUCPNET: ...!psuvax1!suvm.bitnet!demarsee > * | CI$NET: 72136,77 / | AT&TNET: 10288-1-315-423-1816 |______________ | SNAILNET: 221 Machinery Hall `_ | Syracuse, New York 13244-1260 USA `__| ICBMNET: 43 03 04 N, 76 09 14 W, Alt 400
joachim@iravcl.ira.uka.de (05/02/88)
In article <5457@utah-cs.UUCP>, cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) writes: > > we had the same problem, no ZIP packets and not even a sign from > the vms box that the k-box was passing ANY ethertalk packets at all... > sigh, I just went back to the combined gateway code from kinetics > We are using KIP 1/88 and CAP 4.0 with all patches aplied. I was able to write a program that asks the FastPath about the zones, and it works fine, although it will sometimes time-out. I concluded that KIP implements the ZIP protocol on the AppleTalk-in-IP port, ZIP is definitely a must on the LocalTalk and EtherTalk ports, otherwise no services would be available to your macintoshs. Did you enter your AppleTalk on VMS network into the atalkatab database used by KIP? This might be the problem to watch out for. Joachim Lindenberg, University of Karlsruhe Fedaral Republic of Germany - West Germany.
cck@CUNIXA.COLUMBIA.EDU (Charlie C. Kim) (05/04/88)
Nobody has really outlined their configuration, so I assume they are all the "simple" case: one kbox connected to a ethernet and localtalk. First, let me note that IP functionality does not mean that AppleTalk will work correctly. There are items in atalkatab used for AppleTalk routing that are not used when doing IP. Now, there are couple of items to examine. 1. "Chooser" shows the names. Well, this tells us that something is working :-), but that's about it. There are number of senarios that allow this to work without allow full functionality. One in particular I outline below. 2. Connects do not work/Kbox not responding to ZIP query packets. Yes, this is a clue. My guess is that the RTMP "Here I am" packets being sent by the KBOX are being ignored or the ZIP query packet is out of sync with what KIP is expecting. KIP 1/88 sends the RTMP packets on EtherTalk as Short DDP. This is technically within specifications, but not the recommended method (all packets on EtherTalk should be Long DDP). It is possible that AlisaTalk is ignoring these short RTMP "Here I am" packets (that identify) and thus does not know where the bridge is. This can be verified by (a) contacting the publisher of AlisaTalk or (b) see following. The RTMP request packet should be sent to the 'nearest known bridge' (should be the EtherTalk kbox -- this is (b) above). If it is getting sent the nearest bridge and no response is coming back then there is probably something about the packet that KIP 1/88 does not like. If someone verifies (a) Short DDP packets on EtherTalk are not accepted by AlisaTalk then this can be fixed easily (well, it is a pain, but easy enough) or if they are accepted then (b) Grab a copy of the RTMP request packet going to the KBOX and send it to me. I'll try to figure out what's going on with it. As far as names showing up in chooser and disappearing. This usually happens when many packets are getting dropped (and is usually a hardware problem, but can also be due to very very heavy congestion or problems with inter-bridge communications). Charlie C. Kim User Services Columbia University
cetron@utah-cs.UUCP (Edward J Cetron) (05/05/88)
What I see: (to help Charlie): Absolutely nothing.... I use my vaxen to show my ALL 809b ethernet packets. I watch as the RTMP packets from the other (kinetics ethertalk download) KFPS fly back and forth. I watch as the vaxen send their RTMP packets to and fro....I see absolutely NOTHING with protocol 809b coming from the KFPS with KIP in it. This is why I think that it is merely a configuration parameter, and to be perfectly honest, since I've got it working fine with Alisatalk, and NCSA Telnet, and since learning the config for KIP is non-trivial, I've let it just ride for now.... 'specially since our network has lots of working faculty and secretaries who just don't understand 'hacking' the network :-) -ed (but if someone has a bright idea, I'd be happy to try it out....) -ed
maas@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU (andy maas) (05/11/88)
> What I see: (to help Charlie): > > Absolutely nothing.... I use my vaxen to show my ALL 809b >ethernet packets. I watch as the RTMP packets from the other (kinetics >ethertalk download) KFPS fly back and forth. I watch as the vaxen send their >RTMP packets to and fro....I see absolutely NOTHING with protocol 809b coming >from the KFPS with KIP in it. > > This is why I think that it is merely a configuration parameter, and I think you are right. You need to modify your atalkatab file to include Ethertalk net. I had that problem when I tried the new KIP0188 code. After fixing the entries, it worked OK. It replied to RTMP request from my macII. I managed to connect to Aufs from MacII with EtherTalk connection although it didn't seem to work reliably (timing out in the middle of copying full folder. It worked OK with KIP0987). Basically you need to add a line for etnet and modify all kinetics box (on the same segment) entries to have its etnet field set correctly. Andy Maas