PJORGENS@COLGATEU.BITNET (01/18/89)
Sorry if this question has been asked repeatedly, or is too obvious, but: Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II or EtherTalk etc. serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk network, or must I use a FastPath or similar box? I want to try attaching our small AppleTalk (local-talk) network to a VAX with the minimum expense. Suggestions? Thanks much. Peter Jorgensen Microcomputer Specialist Colgate University BITNET PJORGENSEN@COLGATEU PHONE (315) 824-1000 ext 742 APPLELINK U0523
RSILVERMAN@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU (Richard Silverman) (01/18/89)
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 89 15:42 EDT From: >> PJORGENS%COLGATEU.BITNET@vma.cc.cmu.EDU Subject: Mac II as bridge to >> EtherNEt To: INFO-APPLETALK@andrew.cmu.EDU Message-Id: >> <Added.UXowJYy00Ui3MPD08Y@andrew.cmu.edu> >> Sorry if this question has been asked repeatedly, or is too >> obvious, but: Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II >> or EtherTalk etc. serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk >> network, or must I use a FastPath or similar box? I can see no reason why you couldn't do that; I just don't know of anyone who has actually written the code. However, I don't see that it would save you money; even the most expensive FastPath is around $2700; the Mac II alone is more than that, without the Ethernet card. And once you set it up as a gateway, it'll be useless for anything else. Or is there something about the situation I'm not seeing? Richard Silverman arpa: rsilverman@eagle.wesleyan.edu Wesleyan University bitnet: rsilverman@wesleyan.bitnet Middletown, CT CIS: [72727,453] 06457
rolfe@w3vh.UU.NET (Rolfe Tessem) (01/19/89)
In article <Added.UXowJYy00Ui3MPD08Y@andrew.cmu.edu>, PJORGENS@COLGATEU.BITNET writes: > Sorry if this question has been asked repeatedly, or is too obvious, but: > Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II or EtherTalk etc. > serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk network, or must I use a > FastPath or similar box? > You need a product called "Liaison", which is software that runs on the Mac II doing the bridging. The Mac II doesn't have to be a dedicated server, it can be an ordinary workstation, but with heavy network traffic foreground performance will be degraded slightly. I have a small network where all the Macs but one Mac Plus orphan are on an Ethernet, and I needed a solution to hook up a laser printer (which, of course, only has an Appletalk interface). Liaison works great for this (and I get to keep the Mac Plus on the network to boot) and also allows remote dial-up access to both sides of the network. Liaison works great for me, and is a product of Infosphere, with which I have no association other than as a satisfied customer. -- UUCP: uunet!w3vh!rolfe | Rolfe Tessem INTERNET: rolfe@w3vh.uu.net | P.O. Box 793 AMPRNET: rolfe@w3vh.ampr.org [44.44.0.1] | Great Barrington, MA 01230 PACKET RADIO: w3vh@wa2pvv | (413) 528-5966
wnn@DSUNX1.DSRD.ORNL.GOV (W. N. Naegeli) (01/19/89)
Apple has a Router under development (in beta testing now) that will let you use a Mac with an Ethernet board or Ethernet SCSI device as a gateway between LocalTalk and EtherNet. However, it does not support TCP/IP, DecNet, or NFS routing (at least not yet and I don't now whether that is planned) like the Kinetics FastPath or the Gatorbox. If you don't have too much traffic and it all is in AppleTalk protocol, it should do what you need. I don't know what Apples marketing plans for this router software are. Wolfgang N. Naegeli Oak Ridge National Laboratory wnn@dsunx1.dsrd.ornl.gov
paisley@mte (Mike) (01/19/89)
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 89 15:42 EDT From: >> PJORGENS%COLGATEU.BITNET@vma.cc.cmu.EDU Subject: Mac II as bridge to >> EtherNEt To: INFO-APPLETALK@andrew.cmu.EDU Message-Id: >> <Added.UXowJYy00Ui3MPD08Y@andrew.cmu.edu> >> Sorry if this question has been asked repeatedly, or is too >> obvious, but: Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II >> or EtherTalk etc. serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk >> network, or must I use a FastPath or similar box? I seem to recall a recent advertisement by InfoSphere (of MacServe fame) as to a brand new product that would do what you want. Don't know any details. It will act as a bridge between two LocalTalk nets or LocalTalk/EtherTalk nets. Michael J. Paisley PAISLEY@NCSUMTE.BITNET PAISLEY@MTE.NCSU.EDU PAISLEY%MTE@NCSUVX.NCSU.EDU 70156,1117 (CompuServe) Materials Science and Engineering 229 Riddick Laboratories Campus Box 7907 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-7907 Office: (919) 737-7083 Messages: (919) 737-2377 FAX: (919) 737-3419
verber@dinosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark A. Verber) (01/19/89)
Yes, a MacII with a LocalTalk and an EtherTalk connectikon can be used as a gateway with the proper software. Apple has such routers internally, someday we might even see them :-). In the mean time Infosphere sells a product call Liaison which will do the job for you. It permits you to configure your Mac as a gateway between an EtherTalk device, and your two serial lines (running LocalTalk or Async-AppleTalk). This would permit a machine to be configured as a gateway between say: an EtherTalk backbone, a LocalTalk branch, and have room for one dialup connection. Liaison seems like a pretty solid product. The user interface is good/very Maclike. It works well, but the throughput seems pretty slow. I haven't benchmarked it yet, but it seems slower than a Fastpasth-3. When you buy Liaison you are only to use one copy as a full bridge, but you can make any number copies of the the half-bridge code whcih permits easy distrubution for dialup users. One other warning is that Liaison and Kinetics Boxs hate each other. Your world will die if you are running Kboxs and Liaison. You could contact Infosphere Inc. for additional info: Infosphere Inc. 4730 SW Macadam Ave Portland Or 97201 503-226-3620 I believe Liaison is around $160. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark A. Verber Computer Science Department verber@cis.ohio-state.edu Ohio State University ..!osu-cis!verber 2036 Neil Avenue Mall 614-292-7344 Columbus, OH 43210-1277
wnn@DSUNX1.DSRD.ORNL.GOV (W. N. Naegeli) (01/19/89)
In my earlier response to the question about inexpensive gateways between LocalTalk and Ethernet, I forgot to mention Liaison from Infosphere. It retails for $295. I have no connection with Infosphere and I have not seen Liaison in action, but they claim it will route AppleTalk between Ethernet and LocalTalk and also connect LocalTalk over a modem or serial line to another LocalTalk network. Their software generally has a reputation for high reliability. Liaison can also be used to connect a remote Mac over dial-up line to a LocalTalk network for access of AppleShare, etc. However, this is not efficient and works well only with high speed modems because the AppleTalk packet involve a lot of overhead. If you only have a slow modem, you are probably better off using regular telcomm packages with XMODEM or Kermit for file transfer. If I remember right, you can also use Liaison as a bridge between two LocalTalk Zones. Infosphere, Inc. is at 4730 SW Macadam Ave. in Portland, OR 97201. (503) 226-3620.
morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU (01/20/89)
People should be aware that there is more to a Kbox (and more still to a Gatorbox) than simply AppleTalk routing. Support for IP packet forwarding, IP address assignment, etc, that is, all the things you need to run Mac/IP or NCSA Telnet through a LocalTalk-Ethernet connection, is completely independent of AppleTalk routing. My impression is that Liaison (which I have *not* worked with) is *only* an AppleTalk router, and so does not support the IP functions. It would seem to me not too difficult in principle to port KIP to run on a Ethernet-attached Mac. Hackers of the world? - RL "Bob" Morgan Networking Systems Stanford
jeff@drexel.UUCP (Jeff White) (01/21/89)
In article <Added.0Xp8g2y00Ui383x08C@andrew.cmu.edu>, RSILVERMAN@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU (Richard Silverman) writes: > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 89 15:42 EDT From: > >> Sorry if this question has been asked repeatedly, or is too > >> obvious, but: Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II > >> or EtherTalk etc. serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk > >> network, or must I use a FastPath or similar box? > > I can see no reason why you couldn't do that; I just don't know of > anyone who has actually written the code. However, I don't see that it would > save you money; even the most expensive FastPath is around $2700; the Mac > II alone is more than that, without the Ethernet card. And once you set it > up as a gateway, it'll be useless for anything else. Or is there something > about the situation I'm not seeing? I'd like to think that this is where the MultiFinder or true multiprocessing in future versions of the Mac OS can come into use. There are a couple of programs that would be nice to have: this proposed appletalk to ethernet gateway, GatePost, a program that takes data from the serial port and routes in onto appletalk, and to some extent file servers like TOPS or AppleShare. These are programs that really aren't best run (even if they can be) in the background on a normal users machine, but which don't require a completely dedicated Mac. But why make the programs capable of running in MultiFinder or multiprocessing mode. Certainly a Mac II (if not IIx or future '030 machine) could handle taks like this. I realize the reason Apple requires a dedicated server for AppleShare, but I'd like to think that other server or gateway programs could also run on the machine at the same time. Jeff White Drexel University - ECE Dept. rutgers!bpa!drexel!jeff
urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de (Matthias Urlichs) (01/24/89)
In comp.protocols.appletalk Mark A. Verber <verber@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes:
< [...] In the mean time
< Infosphere sells a product call Liaison which will do the job for you.
< It permits you to configure your Mac as a gateway between an EtherTalk
< device, and your two serial lines (running LocalTalk or Async-AppleTalk).
Async AppleTalk? Last time I tried this the other side had to run
a copy of Liaison, too.
< [...] One other
< warning is that Liaison and Kinetics Boxs hate each other. Your world
< will die if you are running Kboxs and Liaison.
Just when I thought "This is exactly what I need"...
Which version of which K-box software does this happen under?
Any pointers as to whose fault it is and whether anybody is doing anything
against this problem?
--
Matthias Urlichs -- Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- FRG
urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de -- ++49+721-621127@PTTurlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de (Matthias Urlichs) (01/24/89)
In comp.protocols.appletalk morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU writes:
<
< People should be aware that there is more to a Kbox (and more still to
< a Gatorbox) than simply AppleTalk routing. Support for IP packet
< forwarding, IP address assignment, etc, that is, all the things you
< need to run Mac/IP or NCSA Telnet through a LocalTalk-Ethernet
< connection, is completely independent of AppleTalk routing. My
< impression is that Liaison (which I have *not* worked with) is *only*
< an AppleTalk router, and so does not support the IP functions.
That's correct. So Liaison should (in principle) be totally transparent
so that I might be able to get at K-Box/GatorBox _through_ a Liaison bridge
or whatever.
Only recent postings in this newsgroup seem to indicate that it doesn't.
I'd like to know more.
<
< It would seem to me not too difficult in principle to port KIP to run
< on a Ethernet-attached Mac. Hackers of the world?
OK, OK -- so where do I get the documentation from? Kinetics?
(Aren't they reading this? :-) )
Or do I read the KIP source code?
--
Matthias Urlichs -- Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- FRG
urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de -- ++49+721-621127@PTTgeo@lance.hss.bu.oz (George Bray) (01/26/89)
in article <Added.UXowJYy00Ui3MPD08Y@andrew.cmu.edu>, PJORGENS@COLGATEU.BITNET says: > > Can a Mac II with an EtherNet card such as EtherPort II or EtherTalk etc. > serve as a bridge for the rest of a local-talk network, or must I use a > FastPath or similar box Check out Liaison from InfoSphere. It is a software-only bridge that connects two LocalTalk networks over the telephone lines by modem. Also, it will act as a LocalTalk/Ethernet bridge for AppleTalk packets. That is, I dont think you could use it in place of a Fastpath or Gatorbox for TCP/IP routing. I'll be trying this soon though, and will let you know. George Bray Bond University Australia