chris@cayman.COM (Chris North, Technical Support) (05/15/89)
I just wanted to let all you GatorBox users know that Cayman Systems is on the net. I watch this newsgroup closely so you can either post a question here or send us mail. I`d prefer that you sent mail to: support@cayman.com rather than to me directly so that in my absence you still get a timely response. -Chris North -- Chris North chris@cayman.COM Cayman Systems 26 Landsdowne Street Cambridge MA 02139 617-494-1999
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (05/18/89)
In article <2877@cayman.COM> chris@cayman.COM (Chris North, Technical Support) writes: > I just wanted to let all you GatorBox users know that Cayman Systems is >on the net. I watch this newsgroup closely so you can either post a >question here or send us mail. I`d prefer that you sent mail to: >support@cayman.com rather than to me directly so that in my absence you still >get a timely response. Sounds good, but back in the mists of prehistory it was decided definitively (with respect to Wollongong) that no one wants to pay the bills for another company's technical support. If you use the Internet for such commercial purposes, you are doubly at fault. It's too bad, and people may have loosened up somewhat since, but I still don't think this is an appropriate announcement. -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "I've got troubles of my own, and you can't help me out. So take your meditations and your preparations and ram it up yer snout!" - Frank Zappa, "Kozmik Debris"
amanda@intercon.UUCP (Amanda Walker) (05/18/89)
In article <7345@hoptoad.uucp>, tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) writes: [about Cayman being on the net] > Sounds good, but back in the mists of prehistory it was decided > definitively (with respect to Wollongong) that no one wants to pay the > bills for another company's technical support. If you use the Internet > for such commercial purposes, you are doubly at fault. It's too bad, > and people may have loosened up somewhat since, but I still don't think > this is an appropriate announcement. However, there does seem to be plenty of precedent for offering email-based technical support as a convenience to one's customers. Witness Pyramid's "bugmail" service, and so on. I've never heard of a company that would ignore email from its customers, which is what the original announcement looked like to me... -- Amanda Walker <amanda@intercon.UUCP> InterCon Systems Corporation -- "You don't have to take my word for it--I'll convince you!" --Gurshuran Sidhu
amanda@intercon.UUCP (Amanda Walker) (05/18/89)
In article <17-May-89.180024@192.41.214.2>, I write: > [...] > "bugmail" service, and so on. I've never heard of a company that would > ignore email from its customers, which is what the original announcement > looked like to me... Actually, what I meant to say was that the original message from the person at Cayman looked like a statement of willingness to read email from their customers. Sorry if I wasn't as clear as I might have been :-). -- Amanda Walker <amanda@intercon.UUCP> InterCon Systems Corporation -- "You don't have to take my word for it--I'll convince you!" --Gurshuran Sidhu
chris@cayman.COM (Chris North, Technical Support) (05/18/89)
In article <7345@hoptoad.uucp>, tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) writes: > > Sounds good, but back in the mists of prehistory it was decided > definitively (with respect to Wollongong) that no one wants to pay the > bills for another company's technical support. If you use the Internet > for such commercial purposes, you are doubly at fault. It's too bad, > and people may have loosened up somewhat since, but I still don't think > this is an appropriate announcement. > -- I was under the same impression as you and my posting was only in response to a number of requests asking for our address. If the conscensus is that this announcement was inappropriate, then I apologize and I will certainly not let it happen again. I think one point to note however is that the net would not be paying for my company's tech support. The person who is benefitting is the person who would have been making the long distance phone call to me. -chris -- Chris North chris@cayman.COM Cayman Systems 26 Landsdowne Street Cambridge MA 02139 617-494-1999
jfm@ruddles.sprl.umich.edu.engin.umich.edu (John F. Mansfield) (05/19/89)
In article <7345@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >In article <2877@cayman.COM> chris@cayman.COM (Chris North, Technical Support) >writes: >> I just wanted to let all you GatorBox users know that Cayman Systems is >>on the net. I watch this newsgroup closely so you can either post a >>question here or send us mail. I`d prefer that you sent mail to: >>support@cayman.com rather than to me directly so that in my absence you still >>get a timely response. > >Sounds good, but back in the mists of prehistory it was decided >definitively (with respect to Wollongong) that no one wants to pay the >bills for another company's technical support. If you use the Internet >for such commercial purposes, you are doubly at fault. It's too bad, >and people may have loosened up somewhat since, but I still don't think >this is an appropriate announcement. >-- >Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim >"I've got troubles of my own, and you can't help me out. > So take your meditations and your preparations and ram it up yer snout!" > - Frank Zappa, "Kozmik Debris" General posting may not be a good thing, but he did say you could e-mail problems into them and surely no one would begrudge him that announcement? John Mansfield University of Michigan North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory 2455 Hayward, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-2143. 313-936-3352 Internet: jfm@ruddles.sprl.umich.edu or john_mansfield.um.cc.umich.edu
kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (05/20/89)
I feel quite strongly that the announcement was _NOT_ inappropriate. It would be very convenient it all vendors with whom we dealt (the list does not include Cayman) were available via the net. The difficulty is that this does not justify advertising, or similar postings by organizations which are not well known. It might be useful to have an on-line 'yellow pages' directory of people/organizations offering services to the net. /kenw
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (05/21/89)
In article <2895@cayman.COM> chris@cayman.COM (Chris North, Technical Support) writes: > I was under the same impression as you and my posting was only in >response to a number of requests asking for our address. If the conscensus >is that this announcement was inappropriate, then I apologize and I will >certainly not let it happen again. I don't know that there is a net consensus. There was one about six or seven years ago, and I haven't heard of a turnabout, but it may have drifted to the other side by now. I am redirecting discussion to news.misc to determine whether there is now a consensus against paying for other's commercial technical support e-mail. To summarize for news.misc readers: A company has stated its intent to provide technical support over the network. The last time I heard this discussed, there was a very strong consensus against it; this was with respect to Wollongong making a similar announcement in the early 1980's. Many people expressed the unwillingness to pay for forwarding these commercial messages. In the light on the greatly increased traffic, this may have changed, and I solicit comments from system administrators in particular. I personally think e-mail support is a good idea, and I feel the earlier reluctance may have had more to do with a lack of respect for the quality of Wollongong's products than with a general policy. In any case, this matter needs to be clarified. > I think one point to note however is that the net would not be paying >for my company's tech support. The person who is benefitting >is the person who would have been making the long distance phone call to me. Yes, people would be paying to forward support messages to you, and no doubt from you as well. This was what people objected to before. -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "Every institution I've ever been associated with has tried to screw me." -- Stephen Wolfram
kwe@bu-cs.BU.EDU (kwe@bu-it.bu.edu (Kent W. England)) (05/22/89)
In article <7345@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: > >Sounds good, but back in the mists of prehistory it was decided >definitively (with respect to Wollongong) that no one wants to pay the >bills for another company's technical support. If you use the Internet >for such commercial purposes, you are doubly at fault. It's too bad, >and people may have loosened up somewhat since, but I still don't think >this is an appropriate announcement. I don't mean to protract this discussion, but I think that there are some points to be clarified. First, if the net under discussion is "usenet" then there are standards for postings that include prohibitions [too strong, perhaps discouragements] against commercial advertising. If the net under discussion is the Internet, then the situation is different. The ARPAnet had prohibitions on traffic unrelated to DARPA business. Unenforceable. The prohibition was informally relaxed, but discouraged "commercial" activity and customer support was classified as such, I believe. This situation has most definitely changed in the new NSF sponsored Internet. The question of customer support on the NSF sponsored Internet (the Merit-run backbone and the "regionals") has been specifically raised and it is acceptable to NSF, in my and others interpretations. The NSF is drafting an acceptable use policy for wide distribution, but it will say things like "in support of research and education" and most everyone expects it to be broadly interpreted. Of course, I do not speak for the NSF. They speak for themselves and often. :-) Cayman need make no apology, in my opinion, for offering customer support on the Internet. All their competitors have an equal shot at joining the Internet. Of course, eventually all commercial organizations offering customer support on the Internet and benefiting thereby will be required to pay their share of costs. This includes Cayman. Kent England, Boston U