[comp.protocols.appletalk] MultiLaunch programs on Apple Share

kenw@noah.arc.CDN (Ken Wallewein) (06/16/89)

>Somewhere I've seen reference to a program which will control the number
>of copies of a program present on a file server (AppleShare) that can
>be used at one time.  We have 13 Mac's on a net and have purchased
>10 copies of MSWord.  I can either create 10 separate copies on separate
>server disks or use some sort of control program so everyone uses the
>same server disk but we don't exceed our limit.  Any information?
>Acknowledge-To: <C4898@UMSLVMA>


  Software developers love to threaten people with lawsuits for unlicensed use
of their products.  Yet where have you ever seen a single one of those
developers do anything to _help_ people who want to comply with the licensing
requirements?

  And if one says it can't be done -- balderdash!  I've thought of reasonable
methods which will function with or without networks, while not diminishing the
utility of the product.  If I can do it without a lot of effort, there must
be a number of methods backed by solid theoretical study.

  I have very little sympathy for companies who find threats cheaper than
products. 

/kenw

Ken Wallewein                                                     A L B E R T A
kenw@noah.arc.cdn                                               R E S E A R C H
(403)297-2660                                                     C O U N C I L

dave@ronin.cc.umich.edu (Dave Koziol) (06/23/89)

Larry Pickett <C4898%UMSLVMA.BITNET@umrvmb.umr.edu> writes:
>Somewhere I've seen reference to a program which will control the number 
>of copies of a program present on a file server (AppleShare) that can 
>be used at one time.  We have 13 Mac's on a net and have purchased 
>10 copies of MSWord.  I can either create 10 separate copies on separate 
>server disks or use some sort of control program so everyone uses the 
>same server disk but we don't exceed our limit.  Any information? 
>Acknowledge-To: <C4898@UMSLVMA> 
 
Ken Wallewein <kenw%noah.arc.cdn@relay.ubc.ca> writes:
>  And if one says it can't be done -- balderdash!  I've thought of reasonable
>methods which will function with or without networks, while not diminishing the
>utility of the product.  If I can do it without a lot of effort, there must
>be a number of methods backed by solid theoretical study.
 
Here at the University of Michigan Computing Center we have written such a
program.  The program is called MultiLauncher, it was originally written by
Shane Looker, and now I'm responsible for it maintanance.  It works like 
this, you run the MultiLauncher Server either ontop of AppleShare, or on
a dedicated mac (we run it on AppleShare).  The applications are replaced
with "fake" apps which look like the real thing, but instead of just running,
it requestes the program from the server.  The server then responds back with
the launcher path if the program is available, or an error message to be
displayed.  (ex  "All copies of MacXXXXX are check out, try again later.")
A DRVR is also started which sends a packet to the server every 30 secs, when
the app is quit the DRVR sends a check-in.  If the users shuts the mac down,
the server times out (in our case after 90secs, and checks the application
back in).  The only current major problem with it, is that it doesn't work
well under MultiFinder.  
 
The issues I'm currently addressing in MultiLauncher are 
  o Software Packages.  For example Systat has 12 different apps, if you own
    5 copies, only 5 total copies of those apps can be check out.
  o MultiFinder Compatibility.  Right now the DRVR doesn't get killed when
    your quit the apps, so it doesn't get checked in until the mac is    
    booted.
  o A Local copy of the program.  For example, some of your users have hard
    disks, but you still want to include their programs in your total number
    of copies, and they want the speed of running the programs from their
    local hard disk, rather than over the network.
 
(Yes, I know running application over the network is slow, but for some large
apps they wont even fit on a 2 drive Plus.  And have you ever looked at the
cost of buying over 1800 hard disks? (That's how many public macs we have!) 
Besides, I didn't design the program, I *maintain* it... :-) )
 
Questions or comments about MultiLauncher can be directed to 
MultiLauncher_Support@um.cc.umich.edu
I'm currently discussing distribution of MultiLauncher with my boss, so 
e-mail the above address if you'd like to see it.
 
Dave Koziol             | Internet: koziol@um.cc.umich.edu 
Computing Center        | Bitnet:   UserDave@umichum.bitnet 
University of Michigan  | UUCP:     ...!umix!um.cc.umich.edu!koziol 
                        | GEnie:    D.KOZIOL1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:   "They don't pay me enough to need a disclaimer"

geo@surf.sics.bu.oz (George Bray) (07/11/89)

>   Software developers love to threaten people with lawsuits for unlicensed use
> of their products.  Yet where have you ever seen a single one of those
> developers do anything to _help_ people who want to comply with the licensing
> requirements?
> 
>   And if one says it can't be done -- balderdash!  I've thought of reasonable
>methods which will function with or without networks, while not diminishing the
> utility of the product.  If I can do it without a lot of effort, there must
> be a number of methods backed by solid theoretical study.

If only the application could ask the server where it resides how many
people are using it, it could disallow more than the licensed number. This
assumes that you have convinced the users that running it from the
server isn't THAT slow.

Why don't more of the developers check for users like quickmail? Check
the network for concurrent users of the same application. CE software
however, only has ten-user packs. 

It would be really nice if the developer said " You can use this software
on your network as much as you want. Every year you pay a fee based on the
current number of users".

> Ken Wallewein 


-- 
George Bray           AppleLink: AUST0287      MacNet: GEO   Pager:075-50-7004
Byte Technologies     ClubMac: GEO   CompuServe: 72711,253   Phone:075-95-1111
at Bond University    Internet:     geo@surf.sics.bu.oz.au   Fax:  075-95-1160
Private Mail Bag 10   Gold Coast Mail Centre    Queensland   4217    AUSTRALIA                                                                                        All Applicable Disclaimers Apply     AADA - The Language of Lawyers 

kdb@intercon.uu.net (Kurt Baumann) (07/14/89)

In article <278@surf.sics.bu.oz>, geo@surf.sics.bu.oz (George Bray) writes:
> >   Software developers love to threaten people with lawsuits for unlicensed
> use
> > of their products.  Yet where have you ever seen a single one of those
> > developers do anything to _help_ people who want to comply with the licensing
> > requirements?

We offer a server license of our products.  The big question is what are
you willing to pay, and what exactly do you want?  As a developer these are
important but hard questions, and many times it is easier to just say, hey
buy one copy of our stuff for everyone you need a copy for.  Our server prices
are based on the maximum number of people you have on that server and how
many we think are going to be using the product at any given time.  Is that
fair?
> > 
> >   And if one says it can't be done -- balderdash!  I've thought of reasonable
> >methods which will function with or without networks, while not diminishing
> the
> > utility of the product.  If I can do it without a lot of effort, there must
> > be a number of methods backed by solid theoretical study.

What methods have you thought of?  I would be curious, perhaps you could
help us to do a better job.
> 
> If only the application could ask the server where it resides how many
> people are using it, it could disallow more than the licensed number. This
> assumes that you have convinced the users that running it from the
> server isn't THAT slow.

What I felt is more likely to happen is that users will just copy it off
of the server in order to use a product anyway.  Why should we go through
all of the trouble when it is easier to just say to buy a copy of the package
for every user?  What is everyones feeling about this?
> 
> Why don't more of the developers check for users like quickmail? Check
> the network for concurrent users of the same application. CE software
> however, only has ten-user packs. 

I think that you can upgrade to more than ten, but you have to purchase another
ten pack.
> 
> It would be really nice if the developer said " You can use this software
> on your network as much as you want. Every year you pay a fee based on the
> current number of users".

What would be a fair price?  How does the developer know how many people
use it?  Got any good ideas?
> 
> > Ken Wallewein 
> 
> 
> -- 
> George Bray    

We have been searching for a good way to allow companies to use our software
on a server without costing them an arm and a leg, but also allowing us to
realize our profit margin.  We could take the hard headed attitude of saying
you want 15 users on your server well buy 15 units of our package.  That's
fair, but is it helpful or useful?  What do you folks think?

--
Kurt Baumann

InterCon Systems Corporation
46950 Community Plaza
Suite 101-132
Sterling, VA 22170                      Phone: 703.450.7117

falken@apple.com (Dave Falkenburg) (07/14/89)

In article <1268@intercon.UUCP> kdb@intercon.uu.net (Kurt Baumann) writes:
> What methods have you thought of?  I would be curious, perhaps you could
> help us to do a better job.

there are a few methods that i can think of right away:

1) have the server monitor keep a ref count for opening up the resource
   fork of a file (since AFP is statefull, unlike nfs, this wouldn't be
   impossible) Basically, AppleShare could work this alot like the "copy
   protection" in AppleShare 2.0

2) devise a license validation/ check-in / check-out protocol that can be
   implemented by vendors.  This would require a great deal of cooperation.

-dave
 falkenburg

disclaimer:  i don't work for networking & communications,
             i'm in system software

#include <disclaimer.h>