unocc07@zeus.unl.edu (Dave Caplinger) (09/11/89)
I've got a 4-Meg Mac SE/30 running AppleShare and PrintShare
simultaneously to serve about 15 Mac SE's in a public access user room on
campus, and I would like to gateway the whole AppleTalk network into the
campus Ethernet. (which would hopefully give us the capability to Telnet
and FTP to a VAX 8650 and Sequent Balance 8000 also on the campus
ethernet, as well as access to some Novell servers for file-transfer,
etc.)
I recently got the AppleTalk Internet Router and MacTCP from my local
Apple office, but I've gotten a little confused by the documentation. Let
me spell out what I think I know :-) so far:
The AppleTalk Internet Router is a software product that runs in the
background on a Mac straddling two to Seven AppleTalk networks, and routes
AppleTalk packets between said networks.
An "AppleTalk network" is most likely one of these:
AppleTalk protocol running on LocalTalk wiring
AppleTalk protocol running on Ethernet wiring. ("EtherTalk"?)
Is "EtherTalk" just a name, like above, or is it actually a different
protocol (like AppleTalk packets stuffed into IP packets?) or does it do
something else entirely?
Except for the mysterious non-explained EtherTalk stuff, I think I know
what the purpose of the A.I.Router is, and how to get it running.
Now we move to MacTCP:
Apparently, MacTCP is just a CDEV that runs on every Mac to stuff TCP/IP
packets into AppleTalk packets, and then send them out over some AppleTalk
medium, be it LocalTalk or Ethernet wiring. Various things that I'd
really like to be able to do, like BOOTP and FTP are mentioned in the
manual, but everything seems to depend on some mystical "DDP-IP gateway".
Now, I understand the need for the gateway between AppleTalk protocol and
TCP/IP protocol, but just what /is/ the gateway? Does the MacTCP CDEV
perform this function? Is it performed by some extra hardware like a
Kinetics FastPath 4? I don't think that "The MacTCP Administrator's
Guide" adequately explains this at all.
What I'm hoping for out of all this is to be able to make an AppleTalk
zone out of the Mac SE's on LocalTalk and their SE/30 server, and use the
server to also route /and/ act as a gateway between the campus ethernet
(through which it will be possible to connect to a similarly set up user
room elsewhere on campus) etheir via an internal Ethernet card or an
external FastPath or other product.
Has anyone done this? Has Apple ever done this type of thing? None of
the Apple Dealers in town know anything about any of this, and the local
Apple office doesn't seem to know either. The "Systems Engineer" from
Apple that gave me the MacTCP and AppleTalk Internet Router also was
adamant that AppleShare, PrintShare, and the A.I.Router absolutely could
not run all at once on an SE/30 under any circumstances, even though it
states clearly in the documentation that it is possible, but requires 2
Megs of memory. (Is this guy a Sales Rep with someone else's card? :-) No
offense to the guy, he's really tries to be helpful...
In any case, any information on any small part of this (or some info on a
working case of the above) would be greatly appreciated, if anyone would
be kind enough to offer it! :-)
-/ Dave Caplinger /---------------------------------------------------------
Microcomputer Specialist, Campus Computing, Univ. of Nebraska at Omaha
mspecial@zeus.unl.edu ...!uunet!unocss!dent MSPECIAL@UNOMA1amanda@intercon.uu.net (Amanda Walker) (09/11/89)
In article <3325@zeus.unl.edu>, unocc07@zeus.unl.edu (Dave Caplinger) writes: > Now we move to MacTCP: > > Apparently, MacTCP is just a CDEV that runs on every Mac to stuff TCP/IP > packets into AppleTalk packets, and then send them out over some AppleTalk > medium, be it LocalTalk or Ethernet wiring. Various things that I'd > really like to be able to do, like BOOTP and FTP are mentioned in the > manual, but everything seems to depend on some mystical "DDP-IP gateway". > [...] > > -/ Dave Caplinger /--------------------------------------------------------- > Microcomputer Specialist, Campus Computing, Univ. of Nebraska at Omaha > mspecial@zeus.unl.edu ...!uunet!unocss!dent MSPECIAL@UNOMA1 If you are running MacTCP over LocalTalk, it encapsulates IP packets in DDP packets. This makes it compatible with LocalTalk/Ethernet gateways such as the Kinetics FastPath, Cayman GatorBox, and so on. If you are running MacTCP directly over Ethernet, it uses standard IP-over-Ethernet packets, thus looking like any other TCP/IP host on the Ethernet. No gateway is needed. -- Amanda Walker amanda@intercon.uu.net | ...!uunet!intercon!amanda
oberst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Daniel J. Oberst) (09/16/89)
Is anyone running MacIP on Localtalk behind an Internet Router? The question is whether or not you need a DDP-IP gateway (like KFP) between a Mac running MacTCP on LocalTalk and an Ethernet. Of course you need one somewhere on the net, but can it be on the other side of an Internet Router (perhaps serving some other LocalTalk network). We have been trying with some earlier versions of the InternetRouter Code and are waiting for our shrink-wrapped version. Does this work if the DDP-IP gateway still talks AppleTalk Phase 1 or is Phase 2 required? I've had several people TELL me it can be done, but is anyone doing it? Thanks.