mss+@andrew.cmu.EDU (Mark Steven Sherman) (08/14/87)
Would someone like to provide some technical details and comparisons on Tops Terminal for the group? At the MacWorld expo, I found Centrum less than giving (one woman told me she knew nothing, another who was holding some kind of press release labeled Tops Terminal refused to answer me with anything but "I'm off duty" and the person who claimed to be the project manager three times gave some glib description and then turned to a discussion of Tops on the Sun.) Some questions: 1) What are site licensing options? Enough of the "we can work something out". The only datum I got was $180 quantity 1 (as if anyone has a network of quantity 1). 2) What kind of address resolution protocol does it use? I heard an assertion that it uses the old Xerox (original MacIP) version rather than the newer version or the official Apple version. 3) How are IP addresses assigned to Macintoshes? 4) How does the FTP work? Like TFTP in the old version of MacIP (PC/IP) which does a back call? Or like Stanford's? Or ? 5) How good is the VT-100 emulation? How about scrollback? 6) Any restriction on the concurrent use of desk accessories, e.g., Intermail? 7) How does it compare against the Stanford or U.Ill programs? Someone ought to tell Centrum that universties tend to use IP based systems and that decisions about such choices are made before students arrive on campus, e.g., soon. Waiting until October to get information out is like saying that they don't want university business until next year. Oh well, we can't wait, so I doubt we'll be using Centrum's product this year regardless of how good it is. -Mark
tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) (08/15/87)
Mark, no offense, but your attitude seems very hostile. You might also want to spell our name "Centram". I assure you that Tim Fredel really is the Product Manager, not the purveyor of some evil conspiracy to lie about positions within Centram. It should not be too surprising that the level of knowledge of pre-beta-test software among the sales staff is low the very first time it is shown publically. Nonetheless, I will convey your complaints to Tim. (1) Site licensing details are still being worked out internally. If this were not so, you would have been given full information on it. (2) Either kind, depending on your configuration. The original Mac-to-Mac version used NBP-ARP (KIP); the current version only uses the old kind because we've had terrible problems getting anything from Stanford. All I need to do is go back and restore the NBP-ARP code. (3) Either by hand on the old software (or if so desired with KIP) or dynamically with KIP. (4) FTP works correctly, that is, with dialogs, not the horrible way, that is, with command-line ftp invocation. There has been a false claim that the FTP requires you to know FTP details to use; this is completely without foundation, and I haven't any idea how it got started. (5) VT-100 emulation is fine. I don't implement every single bizarreness like double-height characters, but I use it routinely for rn and emacs, and others use it routinely for vi. There is also vt52 and adm3a emulation, as well as tty, and I have hooks for other terminal types. What would people particularly like to see? Scroll-back is limited only by RAM and disk space. Standard Mac interface. (6) No restrictions on desk accessories. (7) I think it's a lot easier to use and a lot more aesthetically pleasing. It also has a much more full-featured Mac interface. I hope that answers your questions. Tim
GD.WHY@STANFORD.BITNET ("Bill Yundt") (08/19/87)
REPLY TO 08/14/87 19:54 FROM HOPTOAD.UUCP!TIM@CGL.UCSF.EDU "Tim Maroney": Re: TOPS Terminal Tim, I noted that you claim in your response to Mark that you have "had a terrible time getting things out of Stanford". I assume you must mean out of Bill Croft...whose job incidentally is not to supply Kinetics/Excelan or Centram/SUN with software. Centram was supplied...over a month ago...with the latest version of Mac-IP then available...under a non-disclosure agreement with the president of Centram! So far as we can ascertain we have not been asked for anything else, so it would certainly be difficult for us to respond. Who is it you have been asking for what and when???? .....Bill Yundt To: TIM@CGL.UCSF.EDU cc: INFO-APPLETALK@ANDREW.CMU.EDU, MSS+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU
mss+@andrew.cmu.EDU (Mark Steven Sherman) (08/20/87)
I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression. I was very annoyed and frustrated, but I am not hostile (of all people, I would not be hostile towards you Tim -- you made MacIP work!) Quite the contrary, I am helping people with appletalk <-> ip network plans I need accurate information on which to base decisions. I wasted 30 minutes at the Centram booth -- perhaps I misunderstood the status of TOPS Terminal. I thought it was announced as a product that was ready to go, not "pre-beta-test software". I visited all of the network booths at the Expo and my questions were aimed specifically at rumors that I picked up from non-Centram vendors telling me what they thought the product was. Who knows how many other people came from the Expo with (possibly inaccurate) 2nd hand information because Centram couldn't provide it -- if I had not sent out the message, you would have not replied to the net! I apologize for the misspelling -- I tend to mispronounce short "a" as "u" (a midwest failing) and so I often say "Centrum" instead of "Centram". Maybe if I had lived in Boston a little more, I would get the right twang for "a"s and not make this mistake. (Or should I spell if "sun" -- that's what the booth said!) Two more questions: are you still having problems getting the protocol specification for the dynamic IP address assignment (and general NBP-based ARP?) If so, I think there is a document on line somewhere (here, standford, columbia, michigan) that we ought to be able to dig up and get to you. Second, how does your ftp deal with resource forks and finder information when transfering those files up0t!pb!pb!
mpeter@tardis1.zir.ethz.CH (martin peter) (04/12/89)
>From TARDIS1.zir.ethz.ch!mpeter Wed Apr 12 11:40:05 MET 1989 remote from ethz
We have at our sit a couple of SE's linked over local talk and an FP4
to a SUN Server with CAP5. The FP is runing K-START software.
We also have the version 0.2355 of Tops-Terminal, which is nice
from its features but it seems to have some bugs.
After a couple of file transfer, the drawing of the menues gets
realy slow and the mac bombs quiet often.
Is there a newer version without these bugs avaible ?
Thanks for any help
Martin Peter
Swiss Fed. Inst. Of Tech.
mpeter@tardis1.zir.ethz.ch
mpeter@czheth5a.bitnettim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (04/16/89)
In article <19890412093944.2.MPETER@POLLUX> mpeter@tardis1.zir.ethz.CH (martin peter) writes: >We also have the version 0.2355 of Tops-Terminal, which is nice >from its features but it seems to have some bugs. >After a couple of file transfer, the drawing of the menues gets >realy slow and the mac bombs quiet often. > >Is there a newer version without these bugs avaible ? Yours would appear to be a pirated beta test version (sorry if you have it legitimately, but I don't remember your site being on our beta test list, and I'm sure I never received any beta reports from you). It is an old version. I don't recall that as being a known problem -- testers did lots and lots of FTP file transfers without running out of memory. It might be a compatibility problem with a particular FTP implementation, or it might be a problem that was found and fixed in later versions. (That version is almost a year old and I don't remember every single bug I fixed. And I left my file of Engineering Problem Reports at the company when I left.) In any case, why not call TOPS and ask about availability? If you find anything out, please send it to this list/group. -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "As I was walking among the fires of Hell, delighted with the enjoyments of Genius; which to Angels look like torment and insanity. I collected some of their Proverbs..." - Blake, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
kdb@lts.UUCP (Kurt D. Baumann) (04/16/89)
In article <19890412093944.2.MPETER@POLLUX> mpeter@tardis1.zir.ethz.CH (martin peter) writes: >After a couple of file transfer, the drawing of the menues gets >realy slow and the mac bombs quiet often. > >Is there a newer version without these bugs avaible ? > >Martin Peter >Swiss Fed. Inst. Of Tech. I would be interested in seeing a newer version as well. I would like to compare it to our commercialized version of NCSA Telnet, NCSA Telnet, and Mac-ip to see how the features compare. Anyone know what the restrictions are on its distribution? -- Kurt Baumann ...!uunet!lts!kdb / lts!kdb@uunet.uu.net InterCon, 11732 Bowman Green Drive, Reston, VA 22090 -- "?" -- Unknown
kautht@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Tom Kauth) (04/19/89)
In response to several requests for Tops Terminal: The latest version of Tops Terminal along with a very complete manual is available by anoymous FTP from Oregon State University. Tops Terminal does have many nice features, too numerous to mention. However, it is worth noteing that it will work on a network or over a phone line, and that it supports xmodem as well as FTP. orstcs.cs.orst.edu 128.193.32.1 The directory is pub/topsTerm/ --Tom Kauth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom Kauth > Internet: kautht@cs.orst.edu Department of Computer Science > UUCP: tektronix!orstcs!kautht Oregon State University > UUCP: hplabs!hp-pcd!orstcs!kautht
jim@b-mrda.Boeing (Jim Sadler) (04/19/89)
I have newer versions of tops terminal, but I don't know what I can and can't do. So if anyone has more info let me know. Thanks
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (04/21/89)
Oh, *that* OSU. I'm gonna have to get me some better spies.
--
Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they
be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
-- George Bush in FREE INQUIRY magazine, Fall 1988SOLOMON@MIS.ARIZONA.EDU (Monty Solomon) (07/10/90)
I understand that TOPS Terminal was placed in the public domain. Where are the sources available? Thanks.
tim@efi.com (Tim Maroney) (07/12/90)
In article <900709202806.25e0259f@MISVAX.MIS.ARIZONA.EDU> SOLOMON@MIS.ARIZONA.EDU (Monty Solomon) writes: >I understand that TOPS Terminal was placed in the public domain. > >Where are the sources available? I'd love it if I could make the sources available, but you'd have to talk with TOPS or whatever they've decided to rename themselves. The program was not made public domain, but was made freeware. Only the binaries can be distributed. Pragmatically, TOPS couldn't prove any sort of commercial loss if I posted the sources, since they obviously have no proprietary interest in them, but I don't like to play fast and loose with intellectual property. In my opinion, only a source code release will allow TOPS Terminal and TOPS TCP/IP to compete effectively with the other freeware TCP/IP products. Which is not to put down my programs -- I'm using them right now, and have been using them for years now -- but marketing is based on other factors than simple product quality.