jona@ils.nwu.edu (Kemi Jona) (09/18/90)
Summary of Mac Network Backup Solutions --------------------------------------- Thanks to everyone who responded to my query about Mac network backups. I will summarize the experience we have had with MacDump, and explain why the problems we are currently facing with MacDump may be universal among other backup applications as well. Following that I have summarized the responses I have received to my query. Each summary lists the product being used (or considered), the name and address of the person mentioning it, the system configuration they have, and their comments. I. Problems with MacDump We have about ~50 LocalTalk and ~20 EtherTalk Macs which we backup to a DECstation 3100 running CAP and MacDump. We have 2 GatorBoxes which do the packet translation necessary for the Macs and CAP to communicate. In principle the system has the nice features of allowing backups to be scheduled in the UNIX crontab to be automatically executed, does both incremental and full backups, and resides on a UNIX box which is fast. Once the backups are made to a large disk partition, they are then written to tape using the standard UNIX tar command. The main problem we face with MacDump is the bottleneck that occurs at the GatorBoxes. Even with 2 of them, they still can not translate packets fast enough to allow us to do enough backups per night. This, I imagine, will be a problem for any backup scheme that requires a box (GatorBox, FastPaths, etc) to translate packets between the Macs being backed up and the destination UNIX server. The workaround to this problem is not cheap. The solution, obviously, is to eliminate (or greatly reduce) the need to do packet translation. To do this requires two things: (1) put as many Macs as possible directly on the Ethernet, and (2) get the UNIX backup server to understand the Mac's packets directly. Apparently (and CAP experts can correct me here) there is a modified version of CAP from Rutgers that has an additional module called UAB which allows CAP to understand the packets from the Ethernetted Macs directly. The win for this solution is that not only will the network bottleneck be avoided, but backups will go much faster due to the increased speed of Ethernet over LocalTalk. At this point, however, CAP runs only AppleTalk Phase I. I realize, of course, that putting Ethernet cards in large numbers of Macs is not an inexpensive proposition, but this is the only solution I can think of. As one of the respondents below pointed out, using multiple servers, with multiple packet-translation boxes, can alleviate some of the network bottleneck problems. Of course, setting up multiple servers, with accompanying FastPaths or GatorBoxes is not cheap either. Any thoughts, comments, corrections, or clarifications about the above would be greatly appreciated. II. Network backup products mentioned Product: NightWatch Mentioned by: well!cbm@apple.com (Chris Muir) Application: back up ~30 Macs to tape drive on Mac server Comments: OK, but not great. Heard about Retrospect. Product: Retrospect (Dantz) Mentioned by: Michael Winslett <winslett@cs.unc.edu> Application: back up ~100 Macs on 3 AppleTalk networks bridged to the ethernet with Kinetics FastPath boxes. A few macs w/ ethernet cards. Running TOPS on Macs and on Sun fileserver. Comments: works pretty well, problems are: cost of buying 100 copies of Retrospect, lack of centralized control. Has not yet moved to purchase and install the software on a large scale because of this. Heard about Retrospect Remote, thinks it will alleviate above problems, allow him to run incrementals every night and full backups every month. Costs less than buying individual copies of Retrospect. Product: Retrospect, Retrospect Remote (Dantz) Mentioned by: jjwcmp@ritvax.rit.edu (Jeff Wasilko) Application: Backup to Mac server w/ attached tape drive Comments: Looking at a DAT drive paired with Retrospect/Retrospect remote to back up server and user workstations. Product: MacDump Mentioned by: Bevin Steer <CCBJS@lv.sait.edu.au> Application: using Multigates to connect our PhoneNets to Ethernet, will be backing up to a Sun 490. backing up ~12 Macs per night Comments: concerned about net traffic when exceeding current number of backups per night Product: MacDump Mentioned by: kahn@informatics.WUstl.EDU (Michael Kahn) Application: backing up localtalk and ethertalk Macs (presumably to a UNIX server) Comments: has problem with bottleneck of net traffic at whatever box is doing packet translation Product: Retrospect Remote, ADIC's MacBacker, PCPC NetStream Mentioned by: Jim Matthews <Jim.Matthews@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Application: wants to provide network backups for 6,000 Macs to large servers Comments: hasn't found a commercial product that can solve the whole problem. thinks most promising so far is Retrospect Remote. Problems: Dantz doesn't recommend backing up more than 130 clients per server, requires administrator intervention to do restores. He is looking for system that will back up 500 to 1000 Macs per server, and allows users to do restores. May be implementing their own system if they get the funding. Product: MacDump Mentioned by: blu@millipore.millipore.com (Brian Utterback) Application: ? Comments: using MacDump but doesn't like it. Would like to get source code for Mac client. III. Other interested respondents looking for solutions gsb@bach.caltech.edu (Suresha Guptha) jbk@psuvm.psu.edu (John Kalbach) ohara@brahms.AMD.COM (Bob O'Hara) MARTIN@phillip.edu.au (Martin Ryan) And, of course, myself. I hope this will be helpful to everyone else out there in the same boat as us. Good luck! --Kemi ------------------------------------------------ Kemi Jona jona@ils.nwu.edu Institute for the Learning Sciences 1890 Maple Ave. Evanston, IL 60201 (708) 491-3500
phil@Shiva.COM (Phil Budne) (09/25/90)
We are using NetStream/JetStream doing unattended remote backups to an EtherTalk Mac with a NetStream Exabyte with minimum hassle. Caveats; Most of our Mac's are on EtherTalk. I haven't dealt with it at all, except to set up my Mac to be backed up. I *HAVE* heard some yowls of pain from the folks who where setting it up. You have to leave your Mac in the finder for it to be backed up. It possesses your Mac once a backup starts. Disclaimer; Just a Customer. ............o Phil Budne . o---+----o Shiva Corporation . o | 1 Cambridge Center Internet: phil@Shiva.COM . Shiva | Cambridge, Ma 02142 . | Tel (617) 864-8500 . o---o Fax (617) 252-6852