morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU (07/24/90)
As a followup to my previous message about how easy it is to use Phase 2 with a FastPath, here's a fairly major problem I've observed. On every machine I've tried, including a Mac II, IIx, and SE/30, if the Mac is Ethernet-attached and using AppleTalk Phase 2 and I run the FastPath Manager II, the Mac freezes when the box containing the names of the local FastPaths appears. If I switch the Mac to Phase 1, everything works fine. The relevant version numbers are System 6.0.4 and 6.0.5, FastPath Manager II 5.1, and EtherTalk 2.0.1 (6/29/89). Has anyone else seen this? Is there anything to do besides wait for the next version of FPM? - RL "Bob" Morgan Networking Systems Stanford
tjh+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Tom Holodnik) (07/24/90)
> Excerpts from internet.info-appletalk: 23-Jul-90 AppleTalk Phase 2 and > FastP.. morgan@jessica.stanford. (698) > On > every machine I've tried, including a Mac II, IIx, and SE/30, if the > Mac is Ethernet-attached and using AppleTalk Phase 2 and I run the > FastPath Manager II, the Mac freezes when the box containing the names > of the local FastPaths appears. [You probably figured this out, already, Bob... but this is what I understand of the problem.] I've noticed this as well. FastPath Manager doesn't use DDP longs on EtherTalk (like most applications). It uses DDP shorts with type "K" (0x4B, I think). In _Inside AppleTalk_, the authors discouraged the use of DDP short-headers on EtherTalk, but Kinetics/Excelan/Novell and FPM predated that standard (I think). Since DDP short-header packets are removed from EtherTalk Phase 2 (there's no support for them in the AppleTalk driver, I suppose), it wasn't suprising to me that FPM didn't work. Getting it to work would require a lot of work, both on the gateway and on FPM, from what I understand. Hope this helps a bit, -tom
winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) (07/25/90)
In AppleTalk Phase 2, the short-form DDP header is not "outlawed". The short-form DDP header is, and will continue to be, a valid DDP header format. The extended-form DDP header must be used on all AppleTalk Phase 2 extended networks. Examples of AppleTalk Phase 2 extended networks include EtherTalk 2.x and TokenTalk 2.0. The only time the short-form DDP header can be used is on non-extended networks such as LocalTalk or EtherTalk 1.x. On a non-extended network, the short-form DDP header can be used for packets whose source and destination nodes have the same network number. The Link Access Protocol (LAP) header for LocalTalk and EtherTalk 1.0 packets contain the source and destination node IDs. Because of this, the source and destination network numbers and node IDs in the extended-form DDP packet are redundant when the packets source and destination nodes have the same network number. Short-form DDP headers are used solely for efficiency reasons; in fact, an implementation of DDP is permitted to send extended-header DDP packets even when the source and destination nodes are on the same AppleTalk Phase 1 or non-extended AppleTalk Phase 2 network. For example, the AppleTalk Internet Router uses extended-form DDP headers exclusively, even on non-extended networks such as EtherTalk 1.x. Scott Winders internet: winders@aux.support.apple.com AppleLink: winders.s@applelink.apple.com
morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU (RL "Bob" Morgan) (07/25/90)
As a followup to my previous problem report: > As a followup to my previous message about how easy it is to use Phase > 2 with a FastPath, here's a fairly major problem I've observed. On > every machine I've tried, including a Mac II, IIx, and SE/30, if the > Mac is Ethernet-attached and using AppleTalk Phase 2 and I run the > FastPath Manager II, the Mac freezes when the box containing the names > of the local FastPaths appears. If I switch the Mac to Phase 1, > everything works fine. The nice folks at Shiva technical support told me that there's a new version of the FastPath Manager that fixes the problem. They're mailing it to me on disk. I thanked them and told them how pleasant it would be to have such things distributed over the net. Perhaps other people making the same comment would encourage them to make this happen. They're at tech@shiva.com, or (617) 864-8100. Their salespeople, by the way, are apparently standing by at sales@shiva.com. Oh yes, I have no connection with Shiva other than hoping that they'll make enough money to buy me lunch as often as Novell used to 8^)*. - RL "Bob" Morgan Networking Systems Stanford -------
ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au (Ian Hoyle) (07/25/90)
morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU writes: >As a followup to my previous message about how easy it is to use Phase >2 with a FastPath, here's a fairly major problem I've observed. On >every machine I've tried, including a Mac II, IIx, and SE/30, if the >Mac is Ethernet-attached and using AppleTalk Phase 2 and I run the >FastPath Manager II, the Mac freezes when the box containing the names >of the local FastPaths appears. If I switch the Mac to Phase 1, >everything works fine. The relevant version numbers are System 6.0.4 >and 6.0.5, FastPath Manager II 5.1, and EtherTalk 2.0.1 (6/29/89). >Has anyone else seen this? Sure have :-( It's a real pain having to switch to phase I for configuring the Fastpath using the Manager and *then* going back to phase II. ian -- Ian Hoyle /\/\ Image Processing & Data Analysis Group / / /\ BHP Melbourne Research Laboratories / / / \ 245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170 / / / /\ \ AUSTRALIA \ \/ / / / \ / / / Phone : +61-3-560-7066 \/\/\/ FAX : +61-3-561-6709 E-mail : ianh@bhpmrl.oz.au
jmg@cernvax.UUCP (mike gerard) (08/10/90)
In article <MacMS.18471.25089.morgan@jessica.stanford.edu> morgan@JESSICA.STANFORD.EDU (RL "Bob" Morgan) writes: >The nice folks at Shiva technical support told me that there's a new version >of the FastPath Manager that fixes the problem. They're mailing it to me >on disk. I thanked them and told them how pleasant it would be to have such >things distributed over the net. Perhaps other people making the same >comment would encourage them to make this happen. They're at tech@shiva.com, >or (617) 864-8100. Their salespeople, by the way, are apparently standing by >at sales@shiva.com. I would love to encourage them, so I rushed off a message (in a plain brown email envelope: idiotic comment but at least it makes my answer long enough) to tech@shiva.com. I profited from the occasion to ask a question or two at the same time. Result: a deafening silence. Have I discovered an email black hole? Have you, Bob, been receiving special treatment? Is the atlantic an uncrossable barrier? -- _ _ o | __ | jmg@cernvax.uucp | | | | _ / \ _ __ _ __ _| jmg@cernvax.bitnet | | | | |_) /_) | __/_) | (___\ | (_/ | J. M. Gerard, Div. DD, CERN, | | |_|_| \_/\___ \__/ \___| (_|_| \_|_ 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland
bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt) (08/11/90)
In article <2167@cernvax.UUCP> jmg@cernvax.UUCP (mike gerard) writes: > >In article <MacMS.18471.25089.morgan@jessica.stanford.edu> morgan@JESSICA. > >STANFORD.EDU (RL "Bob" Morgan) writes: > >The nice folks at Shiva technical support told me that there's a new version > >of the FastPath Manager that fixes the problem. They're mailing it to me > >on disk. I thanked them and told them how pleasant it would be to have such > >things distributed over the net. Perhaps other people making the same > >comment would encourage them to make this happen. They're at tech@shiva.com, > >or (617) 864-8100. Their salespeople, by the way, are apparently standing by > >at sales@shiva.com. > > I would love to encourage them, so I rushed off a message (in a plain > brown email envelope: idiotic comment but at least it makes my answer > long enough) to tech@shiva.com. I profited from the occasion to ask > a question or two at the same time. Result: a deafening silence. > > Have I discovered an email black hole? > > Have you, Bob, been receiving special treatment? > > Is the atlantic an uncrossable barrier? I too was inspired by Bob's posting to immediately drop Shiva an e-mail at tech@shiva.com, encouraging them to post updates, if not on an Internet accessible FTP server, at least on AppleLink as Novell did (that's where I got FastPath Mgr 5.1.3 - from the Novell folder). We followed it up with a 2nd e-mail asking a question. We also have not received a response. Ben Schmidt Bell-Northern Research, Ltd. Ph: (613) 763-3906 Information Technology P.O. Box 3511, Station C FAX:(613) 763-3283 bschmidt@bnr.ca Ottawa Ontario Canada K1Y 4H7
haase@meevax.meediv.lanl.gov (HAASE_PETER_K) (08/21/90)
In article <1990Aug10.181415.4487@bnrgate.bnr.ca>, bschmidt@bnr.ca (Ben Schmidt) writes...> >> Have you, Bob, been receiving special treatment? >> >> Is the atlantic an uncrossable barrier? > >I too was inspired by Bob's posting to immediately drop Shiva an e-mail at >tech@shiva.com, encouraging them to post updates, if not on an Internet >accessible FTP server, at least on AppleLink as Novell did (that's where I >got FastPath Mgr 5.1.3 - from the Novell folder). We followed it up with a >2nd e-mail asking a question. > >We also have not received a response. > Don't hold your breath......The support for the Fastpath went down the Tubes since Shiva took it over. And don't expect them to do us all a favor and put updates on a server. I just forked out $85.00 for the new version of Fastpath Manager. In the meantime after I upgraded I cannot route IP through the Fastpath anymore but I can route Appletalk Packets. I called them numerous times and sent E-mail and even told them what error messages I got in the Error Log and they still can't figure it out. All they do is tell you to try this and that which is all nonsensical baloney.........Then they say " We are checking with or engineers and we will get back with you.....so in the meantime I am waiting....waiting.......waiting......waiting.... .......Yawn.......did I get a call from Shiva?........waiting...... waiting...........Do I have any E-mail from Shiva?.....waiting........ waiting...waiting..................................................... ..................................(_) Bit bucket black hole.......... Knock Knock......Is there anyone home? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter K. Haase haase@meediv.lanl.gov (505) 667-2684 Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL)
Adrian_Ruigrok@bcarmqm1 (Adrian C. Ruigrok) (08/22/90)
>> (various valid complaints about Shiva deleted...)
Lets be fair. These guys in the trenches did not decide to take on the FastPaths.
I would bet they are none too happy about it, in fact. When I talked to
them they seemed to be trying. It will take them some time to ramp up.
But I have heard a few good things about Shiva. Though some say their support
is for the birds, others swear by it.
They have plans to put up an anonymous FTP site (or so I was told) and fill
it with goodies. However, on top of all this mess with FPs they are moving
down the road so everything is in a shambles. Added to the fact that EVERYONE
seems to have gone to MacWorld, the support is further paralysed.
Keep trying, they will learn. Yes, I may be wrong but I am willing to give
them a chance. Kenetics were not always angels either!
Adrian
--------------------------------------
Adrian C Ruigrok
Bell-Northern Research
aruigrok@bnr.ca--an12280@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (08/24/90)
In article <1990Aug22.122614.29874@bnrgate.bnr.ca> Adrian_Ruigrok@bcarmqm1 (Adrian C. Ruigrok) writes: > Lets be fair. These guys in the trenches did not decide to take on the FastPaths. > I would bet they are none too happy about it, in fact. When I talked to > them they seemed to be trying. It will take them some time to ramp up. > But I have heard a few good things about Shiva. Though some say their support > is for the birds, others swear by it. Although I might not go so far as to swear by it, I do feel that I should speak up in Shiva's behalf. We were recently hit by the FastPath power supply harness problem. After several calls, I was finally able to get in touch with someone who was able to diagnose the problem immediately, since it was an easy one. They gave me a number to call for an outfit (Federal Technology Corp.) that was supposed to handle their servicing. When I called FTC, I got a recording asking for my number and a brief description of the problem so that they could call me back. They still haven't called; it's been two weeks. I didn't wait two weeks to get back in touch with Shiva. When I complained, I was forwarded to the tech support manager. After a week of delays while they waited for parts and tried to set up procedures for hardware repair, they finally offered to "loan" me a FastPath while mine was being fixed. "Loan" means they offered to ship it to me on a net 30 purchase plan; I was to ship it back when my FastPath was fixed. The repair cost will be billed to Novell, since they sold me the FastPath. It does make me wonder if Shiva is planning to charge customers for repairs on newer units, though. Although it took a week and a half to regain our Ethernet access, I think that Shiva will be able to handle this kind of problem more quickly in the future. They kept me up to date on their progress toward figuring out how to handle these problems and tried to get us back in operation as quickly as possible. I don't know what would have happened if I'd had a software problem, but I'm satisfied with the support I got from Shiva. David Gutierrez an12280@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
phil@Shiva.COM (Phil Budne) (09/25/90)
In article <MacMS.18471.25089.morgan@jessica.stanford.edu> (RL "Bob" Morgan) writes: Subject: AppleTalk Phase 2 and FastPath Manager II? The nice folks at Shiva technical support told me that there's a new version of the FastPath Manager that fixes the problem. They're mailing it to me on disk. I thanked them and told them how pleasant it would be to have such things distributed over the net. The Manager RL "Bob" refers to is 5.1.4 it is available for anonymous ftp from Shiva.COM and by request from Shiva Tech Support. I hope to have it available on AppleLink soon. To recoup, FastPath Manager runs on EtherTalk Phase 2 Macs. % ls -l ~ftp/dist/FastPath/Manager/5.1.4 total 793 -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 212604 Sep 4 18:15 5.1.4.hqx -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 133981 Sep 4 18:16 5.1.4.hqx.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 109952 Aug 13 18:00 Archive.sit.Bin -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 161671 Sep 4 18:17 Archive.sit.hqx -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 131721 Aug 13 17:53 Archive.sit.hqx.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 phil 340 Sep 24 22:12 README I have also started an archive of interesting and useful files in ~ftp/dist/unsupported; brahma% ls -l ~ftp/dist/unsupported/ total 249 -rw-rw-r-- 1 phil 79 Aug 29 15:58 00README -rw-rw-r-- 1 phil 9846 Aug 27 18:19 AA_Protocol.txt drwxrwxr-x 2 phil 512 Aug 30 18:25 FP3-prom/ drwxrwsr-x 4 phil 512 Sep 21 19:14 KIP/ drwxrwxr-x 2 phil 512 Aug 30 18:29 Kboot/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 phil 86 Aug 29 16:03 Notes drwxrwsr-x 4 phil 512 Aug 30 18:30 SNMP/ drwxrwsr-x 4 phil 512 Sep 4 12:03 bootp/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 phil 222142 Aug 29 16:02 netnews-reader.hqx RL Bob's article was followed up by ones from Mike Gerard, Ben Schmidt, Peter K. Haase, and David Gutierrez who related their experiences with mail to tech@Shiva.COM. While I cannot speak for Tech Support, it now appears that they check their Internet mail at least once daily. If you do not get a responce in a reasonable period please contact me. An introduction; I came to Shiva to be the software manager and lead engineer for the FastPath, K-Star and future TCP/IP product development. My previous job was at Boston University where I was a Sr Programmer in the Distributed Systems Group for 5 years maintaining, adapting and developing systems and networking software for Un*x and TOPS-20 (some of you may remember me as the author of the aufs/lwsrv printer access control modifications to CAP). I have been a FastPath user since 1986. I have not spoken up before now because (as you can well imagine) I have had more than enough to keep me busy without addressing issues raised on the 'net, never mind raising ones of my own! Shiva has recently hired a Marketing Product Manager for the FastPath and I am presently hiring several engineers. We are investigating several h/w upgrades for the FP-4 as well as a replacement for the current hardware. Shiva is involved in the IETF in several areas. In short, we are intent on maintaining and developing the FastPath as well creating new networking TCP/IP and Un*x related networking products. I have set up an address "fastpath@Shiva.COM" for your comments and feature requests. -Phil ............o Philip Budne . o---+----o Shiva Corporation . o | 1 Cambridge Center Internet: phil@Shiva.COM . Shiva | Cambridge, Ma 02142 . | Tel (617) 864-8500 (formerly budd@bu-it.bu.edu) . o---o Fax (617) 252-6852