Brian_C_McBee@cup.portal.com (09/22/90)
We have MS mail running on our appletalk network, shich is connected to our ethernet with a Kinetics Fastpath. What is our best bet for gatewaying MS-MAIL to SMTP? Failing that, how about MS-MAIL to VAXMAIL? SMTP would be best, but we'll take what we can get. Thanks.
robin@csuchico.edu (Robin Goldstone) (09/24/90)
In article <34162@cup.portal.com> Brian_C_McBee@cup.portal.com writes: >We have MS mail running on our appletalk network, shich is connected to >our ethernet with a Kinetics Fastpath. What is our best bet for gatewaying >MS-MAIL to SMTP? Failing that, how about MS-MAIL to VAXMAIL? SMTP would >be best, but we'll take what we can get. Thanks. We are running Cayman's GatorMail-M, which is (to my knowledge) the only MS Mail to SMTP gateway available. The product is newly released and has a few bugs which Cayman is working on. We are using it mainly to talk to our VAX, which is running Matt Madison's MX Mailer (SMTP <-> VAXmail) on top of CMU/TEK TCP-IP. There are also several direct MS Mail <-> VAXmail solutions. One is from Pacer and the other from Alisa. I have not evaluated these. We decided that the SMTP solution was more generic and thus more pratical then having specific gateways to each of our other mail environments. A site license of GatorMail-M is $2000. If you want more details about this product please contact me via private e-mail. Robin Goldstone, Systems Software Specialist California State University, Chico Computing Services robin@csuchico.edu
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (09/25/90)
In article <34162@cup.portal.com>, Brian_C_McBee@cup.portal.com writes: > We have MS mail running on our appletalk network, shich is connected to > our ethernet with a Kinetics Fastpath. What is our best bet for gatewaying > MS-MAIL to SMTP? Failing that, how about MS-MAIL to VAXMAIL? SMTP would > be best, but we'll take what we can get. Thanks. Give the Cayman people a call. They have a product that I believe is called GatorMail - M, they also have one called GatorMail - Q for QuickMail. These go from MS-Mail/QuickMail to SMTP. Have fun. Kurt -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) (09/25/90)
In article <1990Sep24.163145.2097@ecst.csuchico.edu> robin@csuchico.edu (Robin Goldstone) writes: > A site license of GatorMail-M is $2000. Well, a commercial site has different pricing...... A 10 user license is about $1000. A 100 user license is about $5000. A 200 user license is about $7000 A site license is $20,000 (not $2000). Call Cayman (617) 494-1999 for more info. Don't take my word on it. The license determines how many Mac users can SEND mail to the SMTP gateway. Anyone can receive mail from SMTP address. You should know that some characters that exist in a Mac mailname are translated in a funky manner. For instance, the address "Barnett, Bruce" on a Microsoft Mail server is converted into "Barnett#m#_Bruce@mac" on the Unix side. If you have this package, you can "tunnel" Mac mail with enclosures to other companies with the same package and the enclosures are still there. That is, someone using this package could send an enclosure from their Mac to my Mac address: barnett@macgw1.crd.ge.com. It could be used to connect to companies with MS mail that prefer not to connect their appletalk networks together. For instance, if Apple had this product, they could mail me Hypercard 2.0! :-) There is still a Unix limitation of maximum mail message size. Maybe Hypercard 2.0 would be too big. They would have to compress it, and I dare not mention any format 'cause the flames would start again. Sigh... -- Bruce G. Barnett barnett@crd.ge.com uunet!crdgw1!barnett
fair@Apple.COM (Erik E. Fair) (09/26/90)
In the referenced article, barnett@crdgw1.ge.com writes:
It could be used to connect to companies with MS mail that
prefer not to connect their appletalk networks together. For
instance, if Apple had this product, they could mail me
Hypercard 2.0! :-)
We are evaluating it.
There is still a Unix limitation of maximum mail message size.
Maybe Hypercard 2.0 would be too big. They would have to
compress it, and I dare not mention any format 'cause the
flames would start again. Sigh...
There is no limit on the size of an Internet mail message. Sendmail has
a configurable limit; in anticipation of various people tossing files
about with the wild abandon that Mac mail systems seem to allow one to,
I have set the limits in the sendmail configs I control to 10MB (and
have allocated spool space accordingly).
Erik E. Fair apple!fair fair@apple.com
Apple Postmasterdag@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM (Daniel A. Graifer) (09/29/90)
In article <26FE4E59.1748@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: >In article <34162@cup.portal.com>, Brian_C_McBee@cup.portal.com writes: >> We have MS mail [...] appletalk network [....] Kinetics Fastpath. What is >> our best bet for gatewaying MS-MAIL to SMTP? >GatorMail - M, they also have one called GatorMail - Q for QuickMail. >Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation I thought the GatorMail products were software to run on the GatorBox. Am I mistaken? Hard to believe that products designed for a GatorBox would run on Kinetics-oops-Novell-oops-Shiva FastPath. What about something utilizing the Columbia Appletalk Protocols? You might also check with Compatible Systems (303)444-9532 for software that is associated with their EtherRoute product (has anyone tried this hardware, by the way?). Also try calling Mt Xinu (K-share product) (415)644-0146 and Information Presentation Technologies (IPT uShare) (818)347-7791. Good luck Dan -- Daniel A. Graifer Franklin Mortgage Capital Corporation uunet!fciva!dag 7900 Westpark Drive, Suite A130 (703)448-3300 McLean, VA 22102 -- Daniel A. Graifer Franklin Mortgage Capital Corporation uunet!dag@fmccva.franklin.com 7900 Westpark Drive, Suite A130 (703)448-3300 McLean, VA 22102
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (10/02/90)
In article <546@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM>, dag@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM (Daniel A. Graifer) writes: > I thought the GatorMail products were software to run on the GatorBox. Am I > mistaken? Hard to believe that products designed for a GatorBox would run > on Kinetics-oops-Novell-oops-Shiva FastPath. I might be mistaken, but they do sell it as a seperate product. The last I knew it ran with any AppleTalk-IP gateway product. Course this might have changed as well. Anyone listening from Cayman, Brad? Kurt -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alex Jauch) (10/02/90)
In <546@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM> dag@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM (Daniel A. Graifer) writes: >In article <26FE4E59.1748@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: >>In article <34162@cup.portal.com>, Brian_C_McBee@cup.portal.com writes: >>> We have MS mail [...] appletalk network [....] Kinetics Fastpath. What is >>> our best bet for gatewaying MS-MAIL to SMTP? >>GatorMail - M, they also have one called GatorMail - Q for QuickMail. >>Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation >I thought the GatorMail products were software to run on the GatorBox. Am I >mistaken? Hard to believe that products designed for a GatorBox would run >on Kinetics-oops-Novell-oops-Shiva FastPath. You are mistaken. GatorMail-M and GatorMail-Q run on the Mail server, not the GatorBox. I'm pretty sure that a LocalTalk server should be able to talk to a SMTP host. I'm definately sure that a EtherTalk server can talk to a SMTP host because the TCP/IP stack is implemented locally, not on the GatorBox. Alex Jauch ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu
schoch@trident.arc.nasa.gov (Steve Schoch) (10/05/90)
We dealt with StarNine when they were getting started. We got them to include support for binary enclosures over SMTP. I wonder if the current produce has such support? When we last talked to them there were a few bugs. Since there was no support for including enclosures in SMTP messages, we created one. In the header of the message was this header: X-Lines: 10 which told how many lines of text there were in the beginning of the message. After that number of lines, we has lines such as this: **|BINHEX|filename|** (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :!fC[E`"%394"2j!%!*!%!Vi!N!4%qR0PG#"ZEfGXEf)JE@&TE$d[GA0b,h0`EfpX ...etc... @&c)%003b"MBA3JILpcFQ-[E@pZ,f0YBbjTF#pME@-ZFh*PBbF+[ki!!!!!: **end** Our MacPOP program handles such enclosures in a way that is easy for the user. Is there a standard for doing such things now? Does GatorMail support it? Steve
matthew@ooc.uva.nl (Matthew Lewis) (10/05/90)
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: >In article <546@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM>, dag@fciva.FRANKLIN.COM (Daniel A. Graifer) >writes: >> I thought the GatorMail products were software to run on the GatorBox. Am I >> mistaken? Hard to believe that products designed for a GatorBox would run >> on Kinetics-oops-Novell-oops-Shiva FastPath. >I might be mistaken, but they do sell it as a seperate product. The last >I knew it ran with any AppleTalk-IP gateway product. Course this might have >changed as well. Anyone listening from Cayman, Brad? >Kurt i When Cayman took over marketing the Mail*Link software from StarNine, they changed the name to GatorMail. This has no relationship to the GatorBox, except that the first 5 letters are the same :-). It will run on a QuickMail center with access to your Unix box via TCP/IP. That means via Ethernet FastPath Multigate GatorBox (Have I left any out? Probably!) We run GatorMail-Q via a Multigate, with no problems. Matthew Lewis -- Matthew Lewis, University of Amsterdam Grote Bickersstraat 72 +31-20-52 51 220 1013 KS Amsterdam Internet: matthew@ooc.uva.nl The Netherlands UUCP: uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!uvabick!matthew
dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) (10/06/90)
In article <1990Oct5.072457.17013@news.arc.nasa.gov> schoch@trident.arc.nasa.gov (Steve Schoch) writes: >Our MacPOP program handles such enclosures in a way that is easy for the >user. > >Is there a standard for doing such things now? Does GatorMail support it? I've had people tell me that the GatorMail product uses ***uuencode***. I have a hard time believing such, uh, misguided behavior, but I've had two requests to teach Eudora how to uudecode, so it's true of SOMEBODY's product. Eudora encodes things with BinHex. When receiving messages, it looks for the standard BinHex line ["(This file must be ...)"], and then "handles such enclosures in a way that is easy for the user". This minimalist approach (no headers or other funny stuff) allows easy mailing of binhex from other platforms (can you say: 'ftp> get foo.hqx "|mail s-dorner@uiuc.edu"'? I thought you could.). I dunno about any standards; wanna make some? Apple is rumored to be doing something about email, but what, I don't know (I got tired on page 437 of the "Certified Developer" application, when they wanted to know if my maternal grandmother hand any moles or other distinguishing characteristics). Probably just a mail transport protocol for AppleTalk. I doubt it will address Internet issues. Uuencode for mac documents is STUPID. BinHex is what's widely available for Mac users (raise your hand if you have a copy of StuffIt; drop your hand if you've paid for it; shame on those of you with your hands still up). All the archives I regularly use use BinHex. And, there are even BinHex tools for UNIX machines, so people who want to use them are ok, too. -- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: s-dorner@uiuc.edu UUCP: uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!s-dorner
jln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Norstad) (10/06/90)
In article <1990Oct5.211803.11653@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: > I've had people tell me that the GatorMail product uses ***uuencode***. > I have a hard time believing such, uh, misguided behavior, but I've had > two requests to teach Eudora how to uudecode, so it's true of SOMEBODY's > product. Yes, GatorMail-Q = Mail*Link sends out QuickMail enclosures in uuencoded AppleSingle format, and it is indeed misguided. If the recipient also happens to be using a QuickMail/Mail*Link system, it works wonderfully, but otherwise the recipient for all practical purposes receives mush. This brain-dead behavour is one of the many reasons I prefer Eudora over QuickMail/Mail*Link (although QM/M*L is still better than logging on to any timesharing system, UNIX or otherwise, to deal with your mail). When Mail*Link was a new product, I beat StarNine over the head to at least leave BinHex'd file enclosures alone. That is, simply append them to the end of the outgoing message as is, and not feed them through the AppleSingle/uuencode conversion. This at least makes it possible to send a file to somebody on the Internet - you BinHex it first, then attach the BinHex'd file to your message as a QuickMail enclosure. John Norstad Academic Computing and Network Services Northwestern University jln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
mpm@boombox.micro.umn.edu (Mark P. McCahill) (10/08/90)
In article <1990Oct5.211803.11653@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes: > In article <1990Oct5.072457.17013@news.arc.nasa.gov> schoch@trident.arc.nasa.gov (Steve Schoch) writes: >> Our MacPOP program handles such enclosures in a way that is easy for >> the user. >> >> Is there a standard for doing such things now? Does GatorMail support >> it? > > [...deleted text...] > Eudora encodes things with BinHex. When receiving messages, it looks for > the standard BinHex line ["(This file must be ...)"], and then "handles > such enclosures in a way that is easy for the user". > > This minimalist approach (no headers or other funny stuff) allows easy > mailing of binhex from other platforms (can you say: > 'ftp> get foo.hqx "|mail s-dorner@uiuc.edu"'? I thought you could.). > > I dunno about any standards; wanna make some? I think there already is a de-facto standard. Everybody is already using binhex. The POPmail software we developed here at Minnesota also uses the minimalist approach of appending the usual binhex line to the end of the message followed by the binhex'ed file. It's simple, it works, and it doesn't require sender or recipient to use POPmail (or Eudora or MacPOP), you just have to be able to decode binhex-format information. Mark McCahill Microcomputer & Workstation Networks Center / University of Minnesota mpm@boombox.micro.umn.edu
JS05STAF@MIAMIU.BITNET (Joe Simpson) (10/08/90)
uuencode is a much older, and more universal, binary->text tranformation standard. Implementations exist for many computer systems. MacBinary is the new kid on the block. The troubling part for me is that I belive MacBinary performs services beyone simply binary->text transformation. It does this in support of the Mac's unique file structure. If this is so, one would have to stuffit (or compressit or ...) before sending to obtain a flat binary file in the data fork. This would be necessary for all mac applications. Many applications write fiat binary files in the data fork. Thus Excell spreadsheets would transfer easily. We are evaluating GatorMail-Q now. I'll let the net know if my suspicions are correct. Unless, of course, someone beats me too it! :-)
barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) (10/09/90)
In article <289@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> jln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Norstad) writes: > When Mail*Link was a new product, I beat StarNine over the head to at > least leave BinHex'd file enclosures alone. This is now a configurable option. If you send an enclosure that is text only, the gateway can either a) treat it as an enclosure or b) append it to the message comment. a) is better if you know it's going to a matching gateway on the other side. b) is better if you have heterogeneous mail systems. We have two gateways (and two appletalk networks) , and one uses A (this remote network is only sending mail to Mac users), and the other uses B - (because 75% of the people here do not have Macs). BINHEX files from A to B are received as enclosures. From B to A is received as text messages. The things we do so upper management doesn't get confused. :-) -- Bruce G. Barnett barnett@crd.ge.com uunet!crdgw1!barnett
barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) (10/09/90)
In article <1990Oct7.202139.1538@paperboy.micro.umn.edu> mpm@boombox.micro.umn.edu (Mark P. McCahill) writes: > I think there already is a de-facto standard. > Everybody is already using binhex. Robert Minich made a valid point. If someone on a Mac wants to mail a friend a GIF image, it would be nice if that person could decode that image even if they have never seen a Macintosh. I guess the Unix person still needs the program single(1), which Cayman ships with the package. I don't think it is valid to assume that everyone on a Unix machine has a program that will understand BINHEX files. At least GatorMail-M comes complete - with sources and manual page for single(1). If they wanted to ship some other program, they would need permission from the author, legal arraignments, etc. -- Bruce G. Barnett barnett@crd.ge.com uunet!crdgw1!barnett
bell@pyro.ei.dupont.com (Mike Bell) (10/10/90)
In article <BARNETT.90Oct9120746@grymoire.crd.ge.com> barnett@crdgw1.ge.com writes: >In article <289@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> jln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Norstad) writes: > >> When Mail*Link was a new product, I beat StarNine over the head to at >> least leave BinHex'd file enclosures alone. > >This is now a configurable option. If you send an enclosure that is >text only, the gateway can either > a) treat it as an enclosure >or b) append it to the message comment. > >a) is better if you know it's going to a matching gateway on the other >side. > >b) is better if you have heterogeneous mail systems. > >We have two gateways (and two appletalk networks) , and one uses A >(this remote network is only sending mail to Mac users), and the other >uses B - (because 75% of the people here do not have Macs). > >BINHEX files from A to B are received as enclosures. From B to A is >received as text messages. > >The things we do so upper management doesn't get confused. :-) > >-- >Bruce G. Barnett barnett@crd.ge.com uunet!crdgw1!barnett The only gripe that I have with this product is that is doesn't handle MX records correctly. I was told that the fault lies in MacTCP, but whoever is to blame, it certainly makes the product less useful.... Mike Bell -- ******************************************************************************** Mike Bell Internet: mike_bell@zip.ei.dupont.com Senior Engineer CSNet: BELLMA%ERVX01@dupont.com DuPont Electronic Imaging Applelink: D2747 Core Technology Group MacBLITZ..... When you feel the need for speed.......... ******************************************************************************** --
barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) (10/10/90)
In article <1990Oct10.121405.15551@pyro.ei.dupont.com> bell@pyro.ei.dupont.com (Mike Bell) writes:
The only gripe that I have with [Gatormail-M] is that is doesn't handle
MX records correctly. I was told that the fault lies in MacTCP, but
whoever is to blame, it certainly makes the product less useful....
We just forward all of it's mail to a smart machine that understands
MX records.
--
Bruce G. Barnett barnett@crd.ge.com uunet!crdgw1!barnettjln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Norstad) (10/11/90)
In article <1990Oct10.121405.15551@pyro.ei.dupont.com> bell@pyro.ei.dupont.com (Mike Bell) writes (about GatorMail-Q): > The only gripe that I have with this product is that is doesn't handle > MX records correctly. I was told that the fault lies in MacTCP, but > whoever is to blame, it certainly makes the product less useful.... Yes, the fault lies with MacTCP. The StarNine folks have written their own domain name resolver which does support MX records. I've been using it in a beta release of Mail*Link here at NU for several months, and it works pretty well. I want to set the record straight: I think that Mail*Link (=GatorMail-Q) is a great product, especially for people who deal primarily with QuickMail but need to also sometimes send Internet mail, and for departments who don't want to hassle with UNIX. But for people who really need heavy-duty Internet mail capabilities on their Mac desktop (like me), I prefer Eudora. Eudora is closer to the Internet style. For example, Eudora supports Binhex'd enclosures, as I mentioned already. Also, it supports .sig files, Internet-style quoting with ">" signs, has a much more straightforward way to specify Internet addresses, etc. We currently have eight departments here at NU using QuickMail and the Mail*Link gateway, and most people are very happy with it. John Norstad Academic Computing and Network Services Northwestern University jln@casbah.acns.nwu.edu