dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (10/14/90)
I'm evaluating a GatorBox/GatorShare combination as a way to expand
our NFS servers to Mac users. I just picked up the software and
hardware late on Friday, so I'm sure some of my questions could be
directly answered by talking to Cayman tech support, but it's the
weekend, and well... Some of my questions may simply reflect the
confusion anyone has when wrestling with new hardware and software
installations. But my AppleTalk skills are pretty shaky too.
First, the configurations I'm planning involve Macs and GatorBoxes
on EtherTalk, using the GatorBoxes' AFP/NFS translation. The only use
I envision for LocalTalk routing is to allow easy connection to
LocalTalk laser printers (including eventual use of GatorPrint to
allow UNIX lpr machines to connect to the same printer.) But I
want the Macs's AFP requests to reach the GatorBox only thru ethernet.
In miniature, the configuration is as follows:
UNIX
Mac(s) NFS Server(s) GatorBox ************ (LocalTalk)
| | | *
| | | LaserPrinter(s)
-|-----------------|-------------------|- Ethernet
The GatorKeeper application which runs on the Mac seems unable to talk to
the GatorBox except through the LocalTalk connection. If I disconnect the
LocalTalk connection and try connecting with AppleTalk set to EtherTalk,
the GatorBox is not visible. Even after successful downloading and
configuration, when I search for an AppleShare server from the Chooser,
it identifies itself as being in a 'LocalTalk' zone, even though I might
have disconnected it from the LocalTalk network. I would have imagined
that if I set up my Mac as being on Phase 2 ethertalk, that the the
GatorBox's emulated file server would be in this zone, and NOT on LocalTalk.
As I read this, I realize it seems a little incoherent. As far as I
can see, the basic functionality seems to work, but I don't really
understand what is going on. I'd also really like to be able to reconfigure
the GatorBox from the Mac without having to put the Mac on the same
LocalTalk net as the GatorBox.
--
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edukdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (10/16/90)
In article <4449@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) writes: > As I read this, I realize it seems a little incoherent. As far as I > can see, the basic functionality seems to work, but I don't really > understand what is going on. I'd also really like to be able to reconfigure > the GatorBox from the Mac without having to put the Mac on the same > LocalTalk net as the GatorBox. You should be able to do this. Here at work we can located and fiddle with a GatorBox over the ethernet cable (as far as I know). I don't think that you really need to move your machine to the LocalTalk net. Newsflash, you have to do the initial setup over LocalTalk, then you can get to it from ethernet. On another note, you might want to take a look at a product that we announced at InterOp, NFS/Share, which is an NFS client on a Mac. Works real well over a ethenet card such as the GatorCard, or any other the others. Hope that helps. -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) (10/18/90)
In article <271B3242.5924@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: > On another note, you might want to take a look at a product that we announced > at InterOp, NFS/Share, which is an NFS client on a Mac. Works real well > over a ethenet card such as the GatorCard, or any other the others. Does it work on LocalTalk Macs with a FastPath 4? David Gutierrez drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (10/18/90)
In article <4203@lib.tmc.edu>, drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu (David Gutierrez) writes: > In article <271B3242.5924@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt > Baumann) writes: > > On another note, you might want to take a look at a product that we > > announced > > at InterOp, NFS/Share, which is an NFS client on a Mac. Works real well > > over a ethenet card such as the GatorCard, or any other the others. > > Does it work on LocalTalk Macs with a FastPath 4? > > David Gutierrez > drg@mdaali.cancer.utexas.edu > > "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard Hmm, as soon as we get them to do something about fragging. That's about the best that I can do at this point, it works but is slooow. We are talking to them about fixing this problem (which by the way, from my understanding is a problem with just about every gateway of this type right now). -- Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
lefty@TWG.COM (10/19/90)
Steve Dyer <mintaka!spdcc!dyer@cs.yale.edu> writes: Message-ID: <9010181737.aa03451@Mercury.TWG.COM> > >I'm evaluating a GatorBox/GatorShare combination as a way to expand >our NFS servers to Mac users... >...[But], The GatorKeeper application which runs on the Mac seems unable to talk >to the GatorBox except through the LocalTalk connection... > I think the basic problem that you're having with the GatorBox is that it needs to be configured from the _LocalTalk_ side before you can access it from the Ethernet side. (We had this problem trying to configure Cayman's GatorBox at the ONC/NFS staging for Interop '90.) To provide NFS connectivity on a EtherTalk only Appletalk network, you need an NFS client on the Macintosh. Wollongong sells such a client, Intercon has announced its intention to ship one as well. -- David N. Schlesinger Sr. Software Engineer The Wollongong Group 1129 San Antonio Road Palo Alto, CA 94303 415/962-7100
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (10/19/90)
In article <Added.8b7Ysby00UkT8fsk8M@andrew.cmu.edu> lefty@TWG.COM writes: >I think the basic problem that you're having with the GatorBox is that it >needs to be configured from the _LocalTalk_ side before you can access it >from the Ethernet side. (We had this problem trying to configure Cayman's >GatorBox at the ONC/NFS staging for Interop '90.) I did that. From GatorKeeper's viewpoint, the box is still unreachable from any zone other than LocalTalk, but it still works (i.e. provides AppleTalk routing and NFS AFP xlation) even after I disconnect the LocalTalk cable. Weird. I can't quite figure that out, but I haven't called Cayman tech support yet, so I can't complain much. (I'll do that once I move the unit from my home where I've been testing it to its final destination.) >To provide NFS connectivity on a EtherTalk only Appletalk network, you need >an NFS client on the Macintosh. Wollongong sells such a client, Intercon >has announced its intention to ship one as well. This is more than a bit of a misrepresentation, since the GatorBox works fine on EtherTalk only nets once you've set it up initially over LocalTalk. And since every Mac has an Appletalk connector, there is no problem in setting the unit up once in this fashion. I'm still eager to try and compare the TWG and Intercon native NFS implementations, however. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edu
josh@CAYMAN.COM (Josh Littlefield) (10/19/90)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 20:50:59 EDT lefty@twg.com writes: Message-Id: <Added.8b7Ysby00UkT8fsk8M@andrew.cmu.edu> >I'm evaluating a GatorBox/GatorShare combination as a way to expand >our NFS servers to Mac users... >...[But], The GatorKeeper application which runs on the Mac seems unable to talk >to the GatorBox except through the LocalTalk connection... > I think the basic problem that you're having with the GatorBox is that it needs to be configured from the _LocalTalk_ side before you can access it from the Ethernet side. (We had this problem trying to configure Cayman's GatorBox at the ONC/NFS staging for Interop '90.) Yes, the GatorBox must be initially configured from LocalTalk. This is because it is not initially an AppleTalk router, and is not multihomed -- it only registers itself on LocalTalk, so it can only be found there. If AppleTalk routing is enabled in the GatorBox (it is optional), the box's basic functions may be configured from anywhere on the net, although it continues to "reside" on LocalTalk. The "Look in zone..." menu item in the "View" menu of GatorKeeper allows you to choose where to look for GatorBoxes. (By the way, thanks for helping us out at the ONC/NFS staging.) To provide NFS connectivity on a EtherTalk only Appletalk network, you need an NFS client on the Macintosh. Actually, if you have GatorShare you _don't_ need an NFS client on your mac. The GatorBox can provide AppleShare/NFS services to any Macintosh on the AppleTalk network. For EtherTalk macs this means they don't need to add MacTCP -- or anything else -- to their Mac. -josh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Josh Littlefield Cayman Systems, Inc. University Park at MIT josh@cayman.com 26 Landsdowne Street (617) 494-1999 Cambridge, MA 02139 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anthony@eeyore.caltech.edu (Lawrence Anthony) (10/20/90)
In article <9010191653.AA19825@saba.Cayman.COM> josh@CAYMAN.COM (Josh Littlefield) writes: > >Actually, if you have GatorShare you _don't_ need an NFS client on >your mac. The GatorBox can provide AppleShare/NFS services to any >Macintosh on the AppleTalk network. For EtherTalk macs this means >they don't need to add MacTCP -- or anything else -- to their Mac. > does gatorshare or any other software allow you set up your mac as an nfs server? in particular, i would like to be able to export the hard disk on my mac (which is on localtalk) and be able to nfsmount it on my ethernetted unix box. among other things, it would be trivial to backup (tar) the mac disks onto 4mm dat drive of the unix box. is such a scenario possible? (a gatorbox serves as the localtalk-to- ethernet bridge.) thanks in advance. lawrence
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (10/20/90)
It is not at all obvious from the documentation that you can't do
ethertalk-only AFP/NFS translation unless you have also enabled
LocalTalk/EtherTalk routing. Therefore, my poorly-worded messages
here on c.p.a constituted no problem at all. (I.e., it's a "feature".)
I have an outstanding call to Cayman tech support regarding my
attempts to install the GatorBox at a site in which I needed NFS
but not LocalTalk routing to Ethertalk. Naturally I enabled one
but not the other. As seems clear from your message, that was exactly
my problem. It won't work if you don't have routing enabled. Aargh.
Frankly, after a week or two of playing with these, they seem neat
but there are a lot of rough edges. Tying ethertalk routing to
NFS has all sorts of side-effects, like if you reboot the GatorBox,
it suddenly gets "lost" from the point of view of GatorKeeper
(of course it does--there's no router there anymore!) Are there
any plans to handle initial setup over Ethertalk without having
the box have to have a LocalTalk connection?
--
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edufrank@urz.unibas.ch (10/23/90)
In article <1990Oct20.084809.18120@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, anthony@eeyore.caltech.edu (Lawrence Anthony) writes: > does gatorshare or any other software allow you set up your mac as an > nfs server? in particular, i would like to be able to export the hard > disk on my mac (which is on localtalk) and be able to nfsmount it on > my ethernetted unix box. among other things, it would be trivial to > backup (tar) the mac disks onto 4mm dat drive of the unix box. is > such a scenario possible? (a gatorbox serves as the localtalk-to- > ethernet bridge.) > > thanks in advance. > > lawrence No, GatorShare+GatorBox is not UNIX. No nfs-exporting of Mac-drives possible (it sais so in the manual). -Robert
lefty@twg.com (10/25/90)
> >In article <1990Oct20.084809.18120@nntp-server.caltech.edu>, >anthony@eeyore.caltech.edu (Lawrence Anthony) writes: >> does gatorshare or any other software allow you set up your mac as an >> nfs server? in particular, i would like to be able to export the hard >> disk on my mac (which is on localtalk) and be able to nfsmount it on >> my ethernetted unix box. among other things, it would be trivial to >> backup (tar) the mac disks onto 4mm dat drive of the unix box. is >> such a scenario possible? (a gatorbox serves as the localtalk-to- >> ethernet bridge.) >> >> thanks in advance. >> >> lawrence > >No, GatorShare+GatorBox is not UNIX. No nfs-exporting of Mac-drives >possible (it sais so in the manual). There is a serious question here of what it would _mean_ to implement an NFS server on the Mac. Since NFS files are, by definition, simple byte streams, how could one handle the fact that Mac files consist of two disjoint parts, i.e. a data fork and a resource fork? In the course of implementing our NFS client for the Mac, I looked into this question, and came up with a couple of alternatives, equally (to my way of thinking) unattractive. 1] You could come up with some sort of bogus naming convention to distinguish the data fork from the resource fork. Unattractive because everybody would have to agree on whatever convention you arrived at. Note that this alternative doesn't address Mac-specific directory information, such as type and creator, or other Finder info. 2] You could treat each Mac file as an AppleSingle (or binhex or MacBinary or whatever) format file, translating it on the fly into a unary byte stream. Unattractive because the file is essentially useless until retranslated. Also unattractive because specific offsets into the file no longer have any particular meaning. Note that this alternative only addresses the Mac-specific directory information by bundiling it into some kind of header. As currently defined, the Mac file system would not appear to map well into NFS' scheme. Maybe when (and if) NeFS becomes a reality we'll be able to do something about it... -- David N. Schlesinger (lefty@twg.com) Sr. Software Engineer The Wollongong Group
demarsee@gamera.acs.syr.EDU (Darryl E. Marsee) (11/01/90)
>does gatorshare or any other software allow you set up your mac as an >nfs server? I believe A/UX will allow you to do this.