DHARRIS@applelink.apple.com (Davie Harris) (01/30/91)
In article <9101291116.aa27259@COR2.PICA.ARMY.MIL> smwall@PICA.ARMY.MIL (Steve Wall, SFAE-AR-HIP-SY) writes: > I've learned a lot about some advanced networking options, but since this is > a forum for 'experts', a level of knowledge is presumed that I don't have. > One specific area where I seem to be quite ignorant is on Appletalk Phase I > vs Phase II. I'm under the impression that Phase I is what you get when > you just daisychain a small group of Macs and printers together with Localtalk While I work at Apple, even in a networking software quality organization, this isn't an "official" Apple explanation - this is just how I understand it. Also, since you specifically talked about an EtherNet solution I'll confine my explanation to EtherNet (and EtherTalk software) and LocalTalk only. Please note that I'm referring only to Apple's released products cuz' I don't know how other folks stuff works. With that disclaimer aside, here goes. Where EtherNet is concerned, whether any given Macintosh is using Phase I EtherTalk software is decided by the ADEV (what you click on in the Network Setup Control Panel item). EtherTalk Installer v 2.01(the current version of the disk that comes with the Apple EtherTalk NB card) will install Phase II EtherTalk software. You may choose to install Phase I support by dragging the EtherTalk v1.2 ADEV from a folder located on the EtherTalk installer disk to the System Folder of the Macintosh using EtherNet. Once this is done, the Macintosh is rebooted, and the EtherTalk v1.2 ADEV is selected in the Control Panel (provided you're connected to a valid EtherNet network) that Mac will be sending Phase I packets. Simply following the installation instructions with the EtherNet will result in Phase II EtherTalk being installed. If you are putting up a new network, that is there is no existing Macintosh EtherNet network that you'll be adding to, the question of "do I use Phase I or Phase II" should be moot. Phase II is the current implementation and should be used. The only reason (under this circumstance) that Phase I vs. Phase II would be raised is if you want to use a non-Apple router or bridge that happens to only route Phase I packets (just one or two of the products I've heard about). Because every Macintosh has LocalTalk capabilities built in, AppleTalk software is installed with System Software. Prior to System Software 6.0.3, LocalTalk was Phase I. Beginning with System Software 6.0.3 and with each subsequent version of System Software LocalTalk has been Phase II. The differences between Phase I LocalTalk and Phase II LocalTalk are not as great as the differences between Phase I EtherTalk and Phase II EtherTalk, but they do exist. The thing I want to make clear is this: With the exception of the case I noted above (3rd party products...), Phase I or Phase II is not a question of hardware - it's a question of software. ========================================= Davie Harris Apple Computer Inc. Networking and Communication Quality The opinions expressed in this document are mine. All mine. They don't belong to anybody else. When you're done with them, give them a good meal and send them home.
winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) (01/30/91)
In article <11907@goofy.Apple.COM> DHARRIS@applelink.apple.com (Davie Harris) writes: > Because every Macintosh has LocalTalk capabilities built in, AppleTalk > software is installed with System Software. Prior to System Software > 6.0.3, LocalTalk was Phase I. Beginning with System Software 6.0.3 and > with each subsequent version of System Software LocalTalk has been Phase > II. The differences between Phase I LocalTalk and Phase II LocalTalk are > not as great as the differences between Phase I EtherTalk and Phase II > EtherTalk, but they do exist. Davie, The version of System Software in use has nothing to do with whether or not a Macintosh system is running non-extended AppleTalk Phase 2 over LocalTalk. AppleTalk Phase 2 is available on the Macintosh Plus or later Macintosh systems. AppleTalk Phase 2 requires AppleTalk version 53 or later and an AppleTalk Phase 2 INIT. Both the AppleTalk v53 file and the AppleTalk Phase 2 INIT are installed by the EtherTalk 2.x and TokenTalk 2.x installers. The Macintosh IIfx, Macintosh IIsi, and Macintosh LC have AppleT alk version 54 built into ROM and do not require the AppleTAlk v53 file. The differences between AppleTalk Phase 1 and AppleTalk Phase 2 LocalTalk networks has to do new high-level AppleTalk calls, not in protocol changes. I am not aware of any applications or utilities that require AppleTalk Phase 2 on LocalTalk networks at this time. At this time I see no benefit to installing AppleTalk Phase 2 for LocalTalk users. Macintosh Technical Note #250 discusses the new calls that AppleTalk Phase 2 provides on LocalTalk (these calls are also available to extended AppleTalk Phase 2 networks such as TokenTalk). Scott Winders internet: winders@aux.support.apple.com AppleLink: winders.s@applelink.apple.com
Tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly) (01/31/91)
Phase II does not need a hardware upgrade of any kind. The biggest difference the user sees between Phase I and Phase II networks is that Phase 1 routers allow only 1 network per network number to a max of 253? zones. In a Phase 2 network (I'm quoting from the Internet Router course material here), "each network number is a network address that can be associated with up to 253 nodes. The size of the network range (note: max range of 1-65279) determines the maximum number of AppleTalk devices on the physical network. A network having the range 1-10 could contain up to 10x253 (2530) nodes." Thus, Phase 2 nets can be larger and partitioned more logically. Phase 1 routers cannot be used on Phase 2 nets and must be run with an "Upgrade Utility" so that they can communicate with Phase 2 routers. Users of the net will notice no difference in performance or behavior, but network managers will definitely see some changes. Hope this answers your questions. Rick Donnelly
jmg@cernvax.cern.ch (mike gerard) (02/01/91)
In article <11914@goofy.Apple.COM> Tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly) writes: >Thus, Phase 2 nets can be larger and partitioned more logically. Phase 1 >routers cannot be used on Phase 2 nets and must be run with an "Upgrade >Utility" so that they can communicate with Phase 2 routers. Users of the >net will notice no difference in performance or behavior, but network >managers will definitely see some changes. Clarification would help me understand this "Upgrade Utility". Does it allow a Phase I user/router to see all the zones of an extended Phase II network having a range of several network numbers? Where does it run? -- _ _ o | __ | jmg@cernvax.uucp | | | | _ / \ _ __ _ __ _| jmg@cernvax.bitnet | | | | |_) /_) | __/_) | (___\ | (_/ | J. M. Gerard, Div. DD, CERN, | | |_|_| \_/\___ \__/ \___| (_|_| \_|_ 1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland
Tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly) (02/02/91)
>Clarification would help me understand this "Upgrade Utility". >Does it allow a Phase I user/router to see all the zones of an extended >Phase II network having a range of several network numbers? >Where does it run? Mike, The Upgrade Utility is an INIT that is installed on a Phase II router that is directly connected to the Phase 1 (node or router). The utility converts the Phase I packets (with non-extended network addressing) to Phase II packets (with extended addressing so that the packets can be routed). The utility is, however, a stopgap measure. The phase 1 nodes will not be able to find any network that has been assigned a range of packets (the extended network information cannot be passed in a Phase 1 packet) and will only be able to see localtalk networks or those Ether/Token networks that do not have a network range. Rick think the printed lyrics on the album are correct. -- "homebrew doesn't kill brain cells, it sparges the weak ones" - bill hunter bill.hunter@Central homebrewer * parrot head * led head * DoD#139 "imagine if there were no hypothetical situations..."
winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) (02/02/91)
In article <11941@goofy.Apple.COM> Tkaczuk.apple.com (Rick Donnelly) writes: > The Upgrade Utility is an INIT that is installed on a Phase II router that > is directly connected to the Phase 1 (node or router). The utility > converts the Phase I packets (with non-extended network addressing) to > Phase II packets (with extended addressing so that the packets can be > routed). The utility is, however, a stopgap measure. The phase 1 nodes > will not be able to find any network that has been assigned a range of > packets (the extended network information cannot be passed in a Phase 1 > packet) and will only be able to see localtalk networks or those > Ether/Token networks that do not have a network range. > > Rick Rick, The information you have posted is incorrect. Here is the correct information: The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility: What it is and what it does There has been a lot of confusing information circulating about what the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility is and what it does. The intent of this article is to clarify this situation. The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility makes it possible for AppleTalk Phase 1 routers to operate concurrently in an internet with the AppleTalk Internet Router. The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility is an INIT that is installed in the System Folder of the Macintosh running the AppleTalk Internet Router software. Why is the the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility necessary? The AppleTalk Internet Router sends out AppleTalk Phase 2 style Routing Table Maintenance Protocol (RTMP), Name Binding Protocol (NBP), and Zone Information Protocol (ZIP) packets. AppleTalk Phase 1 routers are not able to interpret the data within these packets. With the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility installed, any RTMP, NBP, or ZIP packet that is about to be sent out over a cable that has an AppleTalk Phase 1 router on it, will be sent as an AppleTalk Phase 2 style packet and will be converted by the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility and sent out as an AppleTalk Phase 1 style packet as well. Note: Only RTMP, NBP, and ZIP packets are converted to AppleTalk Phase 1 style packets. No other packets types need to be converted; their formats have not changed. The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility also makes it possible for the AppleTalk Internet Router to receive AppleTalk Phase 1 style RTMP, NBP, and ZIP packets. When the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility INIT installs, it flips a switch in the AppleTalk Internet Router that allows the router to accept and process AppleTalk Phase 1 style RTMP, NBP, and ZIP packets. The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility does not convert these packets. The AppleTalk Internet Router has code built into it that allows it interpret these packets properly. What does the AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility not do? It does not convert all outgoing AppleTalk Phase 2 packets to AppleTalk Phase 1 packets. This is not necessary, only RTMP, NBP, and ZIP packets need to be converted. The AppleTalk Phase 2 Upgrade Utility does not work with any third-party router; it only works with the AppleTalk Internet Router. I hope this information clears up any remaining confusion... Scott Winders internet: winders@aux.support.apple.com AppleLink: winders.s@applelink.apple.com