boogles@athena.mit.edu (Brian K Zuzga) (02/06/91)
We have been using a Cayman GatorBox to mount an NFS
filesystem (running on a MicroVAX via Ethernet) as an AppleShare
volume. The throughput of the GatorBox is unacceptable, and we
are looking for an alternate solution. Anything that allows us
to mount a filesystem from a Unix machine will be useful.
What we are really looking for is a way to directly
mount NFS filesystems on Macintoshes connected directly to
EtherNet. In other words, this setup: MacII->Ethernet->NFS
Server, rather than the current setup: MacII->LocalTalk->
GatorBox->Ethernet->NFS Server. Any suggestions and pointers
would be appreciated.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Zuzga
boogles@athena.mit.edu
mit-eddie!booglesph@cci632.UUCP (Pete Hoch) (02/06/91)
boogles@athena.mit.edu (Brian K Zuzga) writes: > We have been using a Cayman GatorBox... > The throughput of the GatorBox is unacceptable... > What we are really looking for is a way to directly > mount NFS filesystems on Macintoshes connected directly to > EtherNet. In other words, this setup: MacII->Ethernet->NFS > Server, rather than the current setup: MacII->LocalTalk-> > GatorBox->Ethernet->NFS Server. Any suggestions and pointers > would be appreciated. You already have the solution. The only problem is that you are useing your macs on LocalTalk. Get Ethernet boards for your Macs and then put the Macs, the GaterBox, and your UNIX box all on the same Ethernet. Use EtherTalk on the macs, and there you go. The GaterBox still does its job of NFS to AppleShare translation but at much faster speeds. You may have to leave one Mac on LocalTalk to boot the GaterBox I am not sure. Pete
matt@pacvax.UUCP (Matt Kingman) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb5.223218.10341@athena.mit.edu> boogles@athena.mit.edu (Brian K Zuzga) writes: > We have been using a Cayman GatorBox to mount an NFS > filesystem (running on a MicroVAX via Ethernet) as an AppleShare > volume. The throughput of the GatorBox is unacceptable, and we > are looking for an alternate solution. Anything that allows us > to mount a filesystem from a Unix machine will be useful. Pacer Software has AppleShare file servers for Ultrix and several other Unix platforms that would help your situation. For a review of the Ultrix products refer to Digital Review 9/24/90. Their number is (508)898-3300 (East coast) or (619)454-0565 (West coast). /Matt --- Matt Kingman - Macintosh Software Engineer Pacer Software Inc. - Westboro, MA 01581 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself.....
kovar%biostat@DAS.HARVARD.EDU (02/07/91)
> You may have to leave one Mac on LocalTalk to boot the GatorBox > I am not sure. The GatorBox can boot via tftp from a Unix machine very easily. In times of great distress it's a good idea to have a Mac around that you can hook up to AppleTalk along with the GatorBox, though. Any Mac NFS solution over LocalTalk is going to be slow due to limitations in the hardware and protocol. -David Kovar
mrn@eplunix.UUCP (Mark R. Nilsen) (02/07/91)
in article <50285@cci632.UUCP>, ph@cci632.UUCP (Pete Hoch) says: > > You may have to leave one Mac on LocalTalk to boot the GaterBox > I am not sure. You can set up an alt. boot path in GatorKeeper. This alows you to boot off your server. Be sure to ftp the binaries and configuration files in binary mode (the directions are in the GatorBox manuals). --Mark.
FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) (02/07/91)
If your Macs will support an ethernet card (i.e. they aren't Classics) then try calling Wollongong. They have recently announced an NFS product. I have no details on it. I called them last month and it was so new they really didn't have any details either but confirmed it was available. If you try it, please post results as I have interests in the area of NFS for the Mac (over TCP/IP). Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com
phil@shl.com (Phil Trubey) (02/07/91)
In article <1991Feb5.223218.10341@athena.mit.edu> boogles@athena.mit.edu (Brian K Zuzga) writes: > What we are really looking for is a way to directly >mount NFS filesystems on Macintoshes connected directly to >EtherNet. In other words, this setup: MacII->Ethernet->NFS >Server, rather than the current setup: MacII->LocalTalk-> >GatorBox->Ethernet->NFS Server. Any suggestions and pointers >would be appreciated. Funny you should ask. I am just now staring at a new copy of "Pathway - Client NFS For Macintosh Computers". This is a brand new product put out by Wollongong. From the intro: Release 1.0 of PathWay Client NFS supports the following capabilities: - Allows access to NFS server from any Macintosh - Includes LPR PrintServer - Includes an SNMP Agent - Uses Apple's MacTCP - Includes NetText Application - Includes NFS Mounter - Mounts multiple volumes from different servers - Uses NFSAD or PCNFSD for user authentication - Contains Lock Manager functionality - Allows access privilages to be checked and set - Includes the MacTCP hosts file The intro goes on to say that it supports both LocalTalk and Ethernet interfaces directly from the client Macs. Haven't yet used the product. Someday soon, though... -- Phil Trubey SHL Systemhouse Inc. (Internet: phil@shl.com UUCP: ...!uunet!shl!phil)
jensen@convex.com (Bill Jensen) (02/07/91)
Wollongong does have a product, PathWay Client NFS, that plays NFS to a file server. Of course what the user sees is a remote volume which appears to have all the features of an Appleshare volume. I have had a copy for about a month but haven't used the NFS feature much due to hardware problems on my Mac. In fact, my primary reason for getting it was for evaluation and to see what the LPR server feature was like. Perceived performance isn't all that high, but that doesn't have to be Apple's or TWG's fault. My server may not be totally up to the job either. The version I have is also revision 1.0, so it has a few bugs that can cause some consternation. None of these bugs is serious and TWG has told me they will be remedied in 1.1. This update is scheduled for March or April. None of the bugs are fatal and they don't cause you to lose data (from what I have seen). Overall, for the suggested retail price (around $200) it seems like a good buy, especially since it also does printing. I haven't used it enough to get a feel for it, but I would say that people who are used to using Appleshare over a localtalk link will not have a problem with the performance. If you are used to Sun to Sun NFS performance, this product may feel really slow. I think they did a fairly good job for this first version. Here is some data: - Uses MacTCP, thus it can handle IP on ethernet and IP encapsulated in Appletalk packets. MacTCP is on the product disk. Get the MacTCP version of NCSA Telnet and they will play together. - Appleshare/NFS mapping is only available on the machine that is running the software. It doesn't turn your Mac into a Gatorbox-like server. - It emulates the berkeley lpr system and will allow Unix machines who run the berkeley spoolers to send text files or PostSript programs to a laserwriter. What you get on the laserwriter with version 1.0 may surprise you, but the problems can be worked around for text files and I am looking at a work around for PostScript files. - Files are stored in a modified Appledouble form. TWG ships an editor that is knowledgable about various end of line sequences, so it will play with Unix, DOS and Mac files. - The product requires your server to run Sun's pcnfsd. As an alternative, TWG ships the source to their own authentication daemon, nfsad. If you don't have pcnfsd be prepared to port their daemon. - Because each apple volume has its own Desktop file and the NFS server cannot coordinate updates to this file, a volume mounted with PathWay is only supposed to be mounted by one Mac. I was told by a TWG person that the likelihood of colliding updates isn't very high, but since I am only running this on one machine I cannot check this out. Bill Jensen Convex Computer Corp. jensen@convex.com
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/08/91)
In article <Added.8bg4AFS00UkTAKRU8j@andrew.cmu.edu>, kovar%biostat@DAS.HARVARD.EDU writes: > Path: intercon!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucsd!ucbvax!DAS.HARVARD.EDU!kovar%biostat > From: kovar%biostat@DAS.HARVARD.EDU > Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk > Subject: Re: Is there a Mac->NFS solution other than a GatorBox? > Message-ID: <Added.8bg4AFS00UkTAKRU8j@andrew.cmu.edu> > Date: 6 Feb 91 17:54:33 GMT > Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU > Organization: The Internet > Lines: 11 > > > You may have to leave one Mac on LocalTalk to boot the GatorBox > > I am not sure. > > The GatorBox can boot via tftp from a Unix machine very easily. > In times of great distress it's a good idea to have a Mac around > that you can hook up to AppleTalk along with the GatorBox, though. > > Any Mac NFS solution over LocalTalk is going to be slow due to > limitations in the hardware and protocol. > > -David Kovar Partially true. If you have a fair number, and we haven't done comparisons yet on this, people running GatorShare all at the sametime you are limited to the processing power of the piece of hardware running GatorShare. If you use a NFS client on the Macintosh, such as NFS/Share or MacPathWay NFS, you will get distributed processing, in that each Macintosh is dealing with it's own set of information, and it is not being converted to AFP. The throughput should be higher when using NFS clients than when using GatorShare, when you have a large number of people on the LocalTalk segment. Adding AppleTalk to your already loaded server (SUN, VAX, whatever) is not doing you or your system administrator any favors. Why not just use what is already native to the server, NFS? Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/08/91)
In article <38955@cup.portal.com>, FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) writes: > Path: intercon!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!FelineGrace > From: FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.protocols.appletalk > Subject: Re: Is there a Mac->NFS solution other than a GatorBox? > Message-ID: <38955@cup.portal.com> > Date: 6 Feb 91 21:03:07 GMT > References: <1991Feb5.223218.10341@athena.mit.edu> > Distribution: na > Organization: The Portal System (TM) > Lines: 8 > > If your Macs will support an ethernet card (i.e. they aren't Classics) > then try calling Wollongong. They have recently announced an NFS product. > I have no details on it. I called them last month and it was so new > they really didn't have any details either but confirmed it was > available. If you try it, please post results as I have interests > in the area of NFS for the Mac (over TCP/IP). > > Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com They have been shipping since at least November when we got our copy. I am not sure about their implementation of NFS, but ours will work just fine over most of the LocalTalk to ethernet boxes. We have tested with the following, FastPath, Webster MultiPort, and the GatorBox. NFS/Share should be shipping by Feb 18. Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/08/91)
In article <1991Feb06.222200.10543@shl.com>, phil@shl.com (Phil Trubey) writes: > Funny you should ask. I am just now staring at a new copy of > "Pathway - Client NFS For Macintosh Computers". This is a brand new > product put out by Wollongong. Let us all know how well it works when you have more than one person mount the same mount point. I would be interested in hearing your reactions. Also do people really find it acceptable to have to use a seperate editor in order to edit text files on the unix side? (NetText) Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.
chiu@brahms.amd.com (Timothy Chiu) (02/08/91)
In article <38955@cup.portal.com>, FelineGrace@cup.portal.com (Dana B Bourgeois) writes: > If your Macs will support an ethernet card (i.e. they aren't Classics) > then try calling Wollongong. They have recently announced an NFS product. > I have no details on it. I called them last month and it was so new > they really didn't have any details either but confirmed it was > available. If you try it, please post results as I have interests > in the area of NFS for the Mac (over TCP/IP). > > Dana Bourgeois @ cup.portal.com I have evaluated the Wollongong product, but found that two severe limitations. 1) It doesn't use the standard pcnfsd from Sun, instead it has something called nfsad. 2) You can't have the same volume mounted on more than one Mac at a time. This is a severe limitation for groups that need to share data. On the other hand, Intercon announced NFS/Share at the Sun Expo(?). From the press release: NFS/Share for Macintosh systems offers the following features and capabilities: -Access to remote NFS Servers -Mounting of multiple volumes from different NFS Servers -Supports Apple Single/Apple double file formats for foreign files -User Authentication via Sun Microsystems, Yellow Pages (NIS) -Industry standard SNMP Agent for network management -User access via Chooser -Easy to use and operate -Unsurpassed access speed and throughput -Host-resident implementation, no additional Hardware required! I'm in no way related to Intercon, but I'm a fairly happy user of their TCP/Connect II product. I've had good support response to problems. From what I can tell NFS/Share looks really promising. Timothy Chiu chiu@brahms.amd.com --
matt@pacvax.UUCP (Matt Kingman) (02/09/91)
In article <27B17A95.3CFD@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: > Adding AppleTalk to your already loaded server (SUN, VAX, whatever) is > not doing you or your system administrator any favors. Why not just use > what is already native to the server, NFS? I disagree. Why not just use what is already native on your Macintosh? Your server isn't going to be loaded any worse by a bunch of Macs accessing an AppleShare Server than by using NFS. I can't speak for other vendors, but our AppleShare servers are easy to install and administrate. Personally, I find it much easier to install software in one place (on the server) instead of having everyone install TCP and NFS on their Macintosh (PacerShare uses the standard AppleShare client software and therefore requires no additions to the Mac). /Matt --- Matt Kingman - Macintosh Software Engineer Pacer Software Inc. - Westboro, MA 01581 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself.....
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (02/09/91)
In article <27B17CB2.3DCC@intercon.com> kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) writes: >Let us all know how well it works when you have more than one person >mount the same mount point. I would be interested in hearing your reactions. I just junked the TWG "authd" and ran "pcnfsd" and it allowed multiple mounts to a shared (but essentially read-only) server just fine. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edu
mst@ms.secs.csun.edu (Mike Temkin) (02/09/91)
In article <155@pacvax.UUCP> matt@pacvax.UUCP (Matt Kingman) writes: >In article <1991Feb5.223218.10341@athena.mit.edu> boogles@athena.mit.edu >(Brian K Zuzga) writes: >> We have been using a Cayman GatorBox to mount an NFS >> filesystem (running on a MicroVAX via Ethernet) as an AppleShare >> volume. The throughput of the GatorBox is unacceptable, and we >> are looking for an alternate solution. Anything that allows us >> to mount a filesystem from a Unix machine will be useful. > >Pacer Software has AppleShare file servers for Ultrix and several other >Unix platforms that would help your situation. For a review of the Ultrix >products refer to Digital Review 9/24/90. Their number is (508)898-3300 >(East coast) or (619)454-0565 (West coast). > >/Matt >--- >Matt Kingman - Macintosh Software Engineer >Pacer Software Inc. - Westboro, MA 01581 >Disclaimer: I speak only for myself..... We have been using PacerShare here at CSUN for over 2 years. We started out with it running on VMS and it was very good and fairly quick. When we ditched our VMS node (yes, yes, thank-you, thank-you) we transferred the license to ULTRIX. All I can say is, I wish we kept the VMS system just for PacerShare. I have found GatorShare to be much faster and definately more tolerable than PacerShare (for ULTRIX). There is an excruciating pause when you first login (while it is getting the volumes to mount) and then just opening up windows is painful. I really don't recommend the ULTRIX version, but I highly recommend the VMS one. Also, I can't seem to get it to go with ULTRIX 4.1, but then DEC broke so many things in 4.1 that I really can't blame Pacer. Mike. -- Mike Temkin mst@csun.edu Cal. State U. Northridge, School of Engineering and Computer Science Voice phone: (818) 885-3919
kdb@macaw.intercon.com (Kurt Baumann) (02/13/91)
In article <346@pacvax.UUCP>, matt@pacvax.UUCP (Matt Kingman) writes: > I disagree. Why not just use what is already native on your Macintosh? > Your server isn't going to be loaded any worse by a bunch of Macs accessing > an AppleShare Server than by using NFS. I can't speak for other vendors, > but our AppleShare servers are easy to install and administrate. Personally, > I find it much easier to install software in one place (on the server) > instead of having everyone install TCP and NFS on their Macintosh (PacerShare > uses the standard AppleShare client software and therefore requires no > additions to the Mac). Of course you and I would disagree...:-) We sell competing technologies. In anycase, I guess what it boils down to is what the user wants. Do you want to add AppleTalk to your VAX, or do you just want to use what comes with most machines (NFS, TCP/IP)? Also, which works better in large installations? Most of the people who talk to us do not want to use AppleTalk in the WANs, they want to standardize on one protocol, and currently that seems to be TCP/IP. So there will always be a market and need for both. In some instances AppleTalk/AppleShare will be the way to go, in oth ers, where there is a large mix of machines, TCP/IP and NFS will be the way to go. In most cases our users already have TCP installed on their machines, and adding NFS/Share is as simple as dropping the file into your systems folder, I don't know how much easier than that you can get. If they don't, adding MacTCP and configuring it can be a pain, but in most cases MacTCP is configured by the Network Administrator and given to each user. Kurt Baumann InterCon Systems Corporation 703.709.9890 Creators of fine TCP/IP products 703.709.9896 FAX for the Macintosh.