10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) (11/21/89)
Can anyone out there in netland recommend any books or magazine issues
that do a good job on explaining the use of desktop publishing for
books (novels, short stories, etc. with little graphics)?
Thanks ahead of time!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Steve Tenney | "I spied three ships
Hewlett-Packard Corvallis, ORE| They were all sailin' my way.
10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM | I asked the captain of the first
_ _|***|__ | ship what his name was and
|_ _||| | how come he didn't drive a truck?
( ~~ ~~ ))) | he said his name was Columbus
\ == /// | an' I just said 'Good Luck!'"
||||\\\ | -Bob Dylan
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++mikes@NCoast.ORG (Mike Squires) (11/26/89)
In article <25160001@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM> 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) writes: >Can anyone out there in netland recommend any books or magazine issues >that do a good job on explaining the use of desktop publishing for >books (novels, short stories, etc. with little graphics)? > Don Lancaster, the Postscript guru for Computer Shopper, has had at least one article on self-publishing. He uses a LW II NTX with the texts stored on the HD, I believe. Michael L. Squires uucp: {necntc,cwjcc,hoptoad}!ncoast!peng!sir-alan!mikes 752 Chestnut Street ..!{pitt,uunet!convex,uunet}!sir-alan!mikes Meadville, PA 16335 BITNET: mikes%sir-alan@pitt.UUCP (VAX) Voice: 814 337 5528 MIKES AT SIR-ALAN!PITT.UUCP (IBM) Data: 814 337 0348 Internet: sir-alan!mikes@uunet.uu.net login of "ubbs" for BBS sir-alan!mikes@vax.cs.pittsburgh.edu
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (11/28/89)
In article <25160001@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM> 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) writes: >Can anyone out there in netland recommend any books or magazine issues >that do a good job on explaining the use of desktop publishing for >books (novels, short stories, etc. with little graphics)? > >Thanks ahead of time! I published a book this spring (second printing this fall). About this time a year ago I was completely in the dark about self-publishing, although I'd produced numerous manuals, etc. for publication by others. Occasionally you'll find a magazine article in one of the desktop publishing mags, but I have a generally low opinion of these magazines in general. Aside from the fact that the subject is too complex to cover in that little space, their general tone seems to be "gee, it's really neat and not really much problem". My experience is that you will mostly have to learn a lot about the printing process, as opposed to desktop publishing. That is, be prepared top talk about weights, grain, opacity of paper, inks, bindings, offset printing, and so on. Printers in general (and I talked to about ten of them before selecting one) know *nothing* about computers. You will have to provide camera-ready copy and specify *every detail* in the process (cropping, gutters, line screens, etc.). If you plan to include any half-tones or grey-scales, be very careful -- printing with ink is much different than printing with toner. Also, get friendly with your local Linotronic service (assuming you want high quality output for a book). Going from LaserWriter to typesetting is an experience in itself. And so on... I never did find a book that explained any of this. Basically, there are books on desktop publishing aimed at getting something out on your own printer, and there are books on self-publishing books (via the traditional manuscript or possibly word-processor route). I found the following in the latter class: "The Complete Guide to Self-Publishing" Tom & Marilyn Ross, Writer's Digest Books. "Methods of Book Design" Hugh Williamson, Yale University press. and piles of books on book design, typography, etc. (which are the real issues, anyway; the computer is just a tool, right?) Anyway, when all is said and done, it's really great to publish (and sell!) your own book. I managed to do everything on a Mac SE (using MS Word, QuarkXpress, Illustrator and FreeHand) except the cover. Originally, I did the cover myself and printed the separations on a Linotronic. Howver, this runs into problem with 'traps' and line screens (more printer terminology), so for the second printing we cut and pasted the cover manually, using the printers vignette screens and my Lino'd type (in Pantone colours, btw). In summary, it's fun, but be prepared to learn a lot and take much more time than you expected. or did you just want a simple explanation of how to print pages on your dot-matrix printer? :-) -- Frank Kolnick, consulting for, and therefore expressing opinions independent of, Computer X UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frank
karl@grebyn.com (Karl Nyberg) (11/29/89)
In article <5158@mnetor.UUCP> frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) writes: >In article <25160001@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM> 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) writes: >>Can anyone out there in netland recommend any books or magazine issues >>that do a good job on explaining the use of desktop publishing for >>books (novels, short stories, etc. with little graphics)? >> >>Thanks ahead of time! I recommend: The Publish-it-yourself Handbook, edited by Bill Henderson, published by: Pushcart Press P. O. Box 380 Wainscott, NY 11975 ISBN 0-016366-44-8. $11.95 paperback from W. W. Norton & Co. 500 Fifth Ave., NYC, NY 10110. -- Karl -- Karl A. Nyberg karl@grebyn.com, nyberg@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu Grebyn Corporation karl%grebyn.com@haven.umd.edu P. O. Box 497 {decuac,haven}!grebyn!karl Vienna, VA 22183-0497 703-281-2194
10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) (11/30/89)
>or did you just want a simple explanation of how to print pages >on your dot-matrix printer? :-) No, you answered my question perfectly. Thanks for all the information. I'll put it to good use. And thanks for everyone else who sent responses! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Steve Tenney | "I spied three ships Hewlett-Packard Corvallis, ORE| They were all sailin' my way. 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM | I asked the captain of the first _ _|***|__ | ship what his name was and |_ _||| | how come he didn't drive a truck? ( ~~ ~~ ))) | he said his name was Columbus \ == /// | an' I just said 'Good Luck!'" ||||\\\ | -Bob Dylan ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) (11/30/89)
>Anyway, when all is said and done, it's really great to publish >(and sell!) your own book. I managed to do everything on a Mac SE >(using MS Word, QuarkXpress, Illustrator and FreeHand) except the >cover. Originally, I did the cover myself and printed the >separations on a Linotronic. Howver, this runs into problem with >'traps' and line screens (more printer terminology), so for the >second printing we cut and pasted the cover manually, using the >printers vignette screens and my Lino'd type (in Pantone colours, >btw). >In summary, it's fun, but be prepared to learn a lot and take much >more time than you expected. >Frank Kolnick, One other question, Frank--except for the software, could you give a ballpark figure on how much it cost to get your manuscript printed (mainly just the printer's cost)? Also, how does the IRS accept business expenses as far as writing off your own labor (assuming you did set up the production of your book as a business). I knew of someone, who owned his own piano store, who treated himself as both president of his company as well as a laborer. Thanks for your info! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Steve Tenney | "I spied three ships Hewlett-Packard Corvallis, ORE| They were all sailin' my way. 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM | I asked the captain of the first _ _|***|__ | ship what his name was and |_ _||| | how come he didn't drive a truck? ( ~~ ~~ ))) | he said his name was Columbus \ == /// | an' I just said 'Good Luck!'" ||||\\\ | -Bob Dylan ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) (11/30/89)
In article <25160003@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM> 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) writes: >One other question, Frank--except for the software, could you give a >ballpark figure on how much it cost to get your manuscript printed >(mainly just the printer's cost)? > >Also, how does the IRS accept business expenses as far as writing off >your own labor (assuming you did set up the production of your book >as a business). I knew of someone, who owned his own piano store, who >treated himself as both president of his company as well as a laborer. > >Thanks for your info! The actual printing cost is highly dependent on the paper stock (best if you use a 'house' brand that the printer buys in large quantities) and particularly the quantity printed. There's a set-up cost of several thousand dollars (I got quotes from 3 to 8K!) , plus a per-copy charge which diminishes gradually with greater quantities. My first printing ran about $6 a copy (Canadian) for a 300 page book on really good paper (I'm fussy, and it was my first book), perfect-bound, with a colour, laminated cover. If I had printed 2000, the charge would have been about $5; at any smaller quantity, it would have been prohibitive. I priced out the equivalent of K & R and it would have saved me another dollar or so (cheaper paper, smaller size, simple cover). I didn't factor in the time spent, since this would have been depressing :-) As for taxes, our equivalent of the IRS treats me as a low-volume manufacturer, so I can deduct the printing and materials costs. As for salary and other such questions, we're primarily a consulting company, and we're incorporated, and this is all too complex for me so I let our accountant handle it :-) I.e., there seems to be a lot of latitude in determining what goes where, and how your doing this year, where your year-end occurs, and so on. I'd rather write. You're welcome. (Btw, printers are really skeptical when you do this sort of thing. Which is another reason to try know more than they do. On the other hand, when you go back for your next printing -- esp. in a greater quantity -- the president brings you a coffee!) -- Frank Kolnick, consulting for, and therefore expressing opinions independent of, Computer X UUCP: {allegra, linus}!utzoo!mnetor!frank
cortesi@infmx.UUCP (David Cortesi) (12/01/89)
In article <25160003@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM> 10e@hpcvia.CV.HP.COM (Steven_Tenney) writes: > >Also, how does the IRS accept business expenses as far as writing off >your own labor (assuming you did set up the production of your book >as a business). I knew of someone, who owned his own piano store, who >treated himself as both president of his company as well as a laborer. Unless they fixed the tax law since 1988 when I was last free-lancing, it is a LOT more complicated than you think. At least then, books were capitalized income, not current income. That is, you could note all the expenses that went into producing a book, but you could only charge them against the actual income produced by THAT book. Conversely, income from a book could only be reduced by the expenses on that book, not any other expense. This is as opposed to what you might expect, charging the expenses incurred this year against whatever income you made this year from any source. Naturally this creates a very complicated accounting problem for the free-lance writer/publisher, since expenses have to be kept in separate accounts by project and doled out over possibly years as income comes in. Various writers groups were trying to get the law changed without much effect the last I heard...
amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) (12/01/89)
In article <5173@mnetor.UUCP>, frank@mnetor.UUCP (Frank Kolnick) writes: > (Btw, printers are really skeptical when you do this sort of thing. > Which is another reason to try know more than they do. On the other > hand, when you go back for your next printing -- esp. in a greater > quantity -- the president brings you a coffee!) This touches on a good point. Printers tend to be skeptical of "amateurs" who don't know what they're doing, and usually with good reason. Printing involves a lot of detail, and one of the best things you can do to prepare yourself for publishing something yourself is to learn as much as you can about graphic arts and print production *before* you start. A lot of this may seem irrelevant, but it will let you tell the printer what you want and answer most of the questions they ask you. It will also gain their respect, since it shows that you have made an effort to avoid common pitfalls. If you just hand them a pile of loose Lino output and say "Here--make a book out these", you'll end up being a "stupid customer story" :-). Especially for stuff that doesn't involve process color, it's actually not too hard, but keep in mind the old carpenter's adage: "measure twice, cut once." Problems you avoid in the first place are problems you don't have to fix later... -- Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation amanda@intercon.com
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (12/02/89)
>This touches on a good point. Printers tend to be skeptical of "amateurs" >who don't know what they're doing, and usually with good reason. Printing >involves a lot of detail, and one of the best things you can do to prepare >yourself for publishing something yourself is to learn as much as you can >about graphic arts and print production *before* you start. Definitely. When I decided to switch OtherRealms to offset, I got preliminary quotes from a number of printers, then when I chose one, I sat down with him and said "tell me exactly how you want this to look." He did. I followed it. In the time I did offset, we only had one problem [he used the wrong paper weight, and he ate the price difference] and that was because he misread the job order. We never had a job that didn't go right onto plates without a glitch and never needed rework. Books are nice, but the printer is expert. Every shop handles things a little differently, and the single best place to get the right information is from the person who's going to be doing the job. Don't expect him to teach you from scratch, but *do* use his expertise to help you figure out how to get things ready. They should be *very* happy to show you a sample job and spend 20 or 30 minutes going over how they want things, because it'll save them hours (and you money and hassle and frustration) later. If they aren't willing, you probably want another shop, especially as a beginner. >If you just hand them a pile of loose Lino output and say "Here--make a >book out these", you'll end up being a "stupid customer story" :-). The more work you do, the less the pre-press will cost. Unless you do 100% of the layout on-line (unlikely and probably not a good idea, especially if you've got photos or other things that require good reproduction), you'll want a waxer and to learn how to use it. Do your own paste-up, set up the boards, get as much done as you can and you'll find things go very smoothly with many fewers surprises. -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] When it comes to matters ourside your specialties, you are consistently and brilliantly stupid [....] with respect to matters you haven't studied and have had no experience basing your opinions on casual gossip [....] and plain misinformation -- unsuspected because you haven't attempted to verify it. -- Robert Heinlein to J.W. Campbell, Jr. 1941
tut%cairo@Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) (12/05/89)
In article <2737@infmx.UUCP>, cortesi@infmx.UUCP (David Cortesi) writes: > > Unless they fixed the tax law since 1988 when I was last free-lancing, > it is a LOT more complicated than you think. At least then, books were > capitalized income, not current income. That is, you could note all the > expenses that went into producing a book, but you could only charge them > against the actual income produced by THAT book. Conversely, income from > a book could only be reduced by the expenses on that book, not any other > expense. This is as opposed to what you might expect, charging the expenses > incurred this year against whatever income you made this year from any source. > Naturally this creates a very complicated accounting problem for the > free-lance writer/publisher, since expenses have to be kept in separate > accounts by project and doled out over possibly years as income comes in. > Various writers groups were trying to get the law changed without much > effect the last I heard... The tax law was changed in the Technical Corrections Act of 1988 (I think that was the year). Writers are often good at writing letters, and elected officials pay attention to letters. I doubt freelance writers had the clout to do it, though-- I think the Hollywood studios paid the lobbyists who actually made the difference. So the tax law is just like it used to be: year by year. If you lose money researching a book that won't be finished until next year, you can deduct the loss this year. Bill