rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda Gaines) (05/23/91)
The header says it all. I would appreciate any comments you have on this package (good or bad). Will it run under X11? We have a varied Sun setup and want a package that will run on all the platforms we have. -rhonda -- Rhonda Gaines INTERNET: rrg@fibercom.com FiberCom, Inc. UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!rrg P.O. Box 11966 PHONE: 703-342-6700 or 800-423-1183 x291 Roanoke, VA 24022-1966 FAX: 703-342-5961
saal@moss.ATT.COM (Sam Saal,1A-110,6956,Cap Gemini) (05/24/91)
In article <17688@fibercom.COM> rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda R. Gaines) writes: >The header says it all. I would appreciate any comments you have on this We used all three packages before it bacame Island's toy. In those days, all of ~2 years ago, it was SunDraw, SunWrite, and SunPaint. Were they trying to immitate Mac? The draw and paint tools were very good. They had good screen capture capabilities and the ability to transfer images from one to the other was very helpful. I also liked the toolkits for drawing and painting. The only thing missing (and may have since been added) was the ability to trace a bitmap back to a vector. SunWrite had its problems. It was fine as long as your document was very short (3-5 pages max), you weren't working on a loaded machine, and you didn't make many changes to docs with lots of illustrations. SunWrite anchors pictures to the page. This means that if you added text before text associated with a picture, the picture would no longer be right next to that text. This was especially a problem if the text was indented to flow around the picture. Write works very slowly. It took forever to redraw screens and even longer to move between pages. Add that to the fact that you had to manually readjust pictures every time you added text, and the process became agonizing. Another reason Write is only good for smaller docs is its inadequate collections capability. Generating ToCs, indexes, Lists of Figures, etc was a pain because it had to be done manually. Sun/Island -Paint, -Draw, and -Write were really inexpensive, though, and we thought we could get away with using them. We found out otherwise and have since moved to FrameMaker. (We also looked at Interleaf, but that's even more expensive.) -- Sam Saal saal@moss.att.com Vayiphtach HaShem et peah HaAttone
laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) (05/28/91)
rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda Gaines) writes: >The header says it all. I would appreciate any comments you have on this >package (good or bad). Will it run under X11? We have a varied Sun setup >and want a package that will run on all the platforms we have. Perhaps there is a new version out, but when we evaluated it about 6 months ago we were a little disappointed. All of the tools seemed to be 1/2 finished... though I suspect that this is only because they compare poorly to the standard of equivallent tools on the Mac. The thing that really bugged us was the way the promotional literature misled us into assuming that it would run fine under OpenWindows. In fact, what we got was a SunView implementation of an OpenLook conformant-ish interface, which would kind-of run in that kind-of SunView compatibilty mode which OpenWindows kind-of has. ------------- David Lau-Kee, Canon Research Centre Europe, 17/20 Frederick Sanger Rd, Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU25YD, UK. laukee@canon.co.uk, laukee@canon.uucp, ..!mcsun!ukc!uos-ee!canon!laukee Tel: +44 (0) 483 574325 Fax: +44 (0) 483 574360
henry@angel.Eng.Sun.COM (Henry McGilton) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May28.082241.22523@canon.co.uk>, laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) writes: * rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda Gaines) writes: ** The header says it all. I would appreciate any comments ** you have on this package (good or bad). Will it run ** under X11? We have a varied Sun setup and want a ** package that will run on all the platforms we have. * Perhaps there is a new version out, There is (are) new versions for Sun OpenWindows. * but when we evaluated it about 6 months ago Here in Silicon Valley, entire corporations start up and put themselves out of business in six months. * we were a little disappointed. All of the tools seemed * to be 1/2 finished... though I suspect that this is only * because they compare poorly to the standard of equivallent * tools on the Mac. * The thing that really bugged us was the way the promotional * literature misled us into assuming that it would run fine * under OpenWindows. Promotional literature per se doesn't mislead -- one gets misled by what one reads into it. The lesson to be learned here is not to make any `buy' decisions based on collateral, but to get evaluation copies of products. ........ Henry If Operating Systems were buildings, UNIX would be the Winchester Mystery House.
bochner@lange.harvard.EDU (Harry Bochner) (05/30/91)
In article <1991May28.082241.22523@canon.co.uk>, laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) writes: > rrg@fibercom.COM (Rhonda Gaines) writes: > >The header says it all. I would appreciate any comments you have on this > >package (good or bad). Will it run under X11? We have a varied Sun setup > >and want a package that will run on all the platforms we have. ... > The thing that really bugged us was the way the promotional literature > misled us into assuming that it would run fine under OpenWindows. In fact, > what we got was a SunView implementation of an OpenLook conformant-ish > interface, which would kind-of run in that kind-of SunView compatibilty mode > which OpenWindows kind-of has. The real X-based version for OpenWindows has been out for about 6 months. Despite several version updates, however, IslandWrite still seems to be buggy and unreliable. (I don't have enough experience with I-Draw or Paint to comment on them.) I can't recommend it. My experience with FrameMaker is much more positive: I recommend that you get their free demo and try it out. -- Harry Bochner bochner@das.harvard.edu
dav@gtc.com (David L. Markowitz) (05/31/91)
bochner@lange.harvard.EDU (Harry Bochner) writes: >In article <1991May28.082241.22523@canon.co.uk>, laukee@canon.co.uk (David Lau-Kee) writes: >> The thing that really bugged us was the way the promotional literature >> misled us into assuming that it would run fine under OpenWindows. In fact, >> what we got was a SunView implementation of an OpenLook conformant-ish >> interface, which would kind-of run in that kind-of SunView compatibilty mode >> which OpenWindows kind-of has. >The real X-based version for OpenWindows has been out for about 6 months. >Despite several version updates, however, IslandWrite still seems to be buggy and >unreliable. (I don't have enough experience with I-Draw or Paint to comment on >them.) I can't recommend it. My experience with FrameMaker is much more positive: I have owned the Island suite for over six months now, starting with 1.3 (the Sunview/OL version), and now have 2.3 (the Xview Open Look version). I am seriously considering upgrading to 3.0. (I also have extensive experience with Interleaf 2 and 3, and Frame 2.1X, for what it's worth.) When I bought it, I arranged that they would upgrade me to 2.3 for no extra cost. Based on their sales literature at the time, I also got the T/Maker clip art package that they were bundling at that time, and another upgrade when their I/O filters were released. I did this by carefully asking questions, and then extracting promises from my sales critter. Everything they promised, I eventually got, although there was occasionally some teeth pulling involved (usually having to do with them mailing 1/4" tapes instead of floppies - a moot point now that they no longer support floppies, but instead prefer to ship it on CD-ROM). btw, the filters in 2.3 are really bad. They claim to have improved them in 3.0, but I am still working with their tech support on the problems. They didn't write them - they licensed them from Blueberry(?). Note that I received 3 version of software and some tech. support (bug fix support, not "how do I do this" support) without purchasing their (badly overpriced) maintenance contract. Now for a technical comparison of Island 2.3 OL vs. Frame 2.1X. This is not between Island 3.0 and/or Frame 3.0, since I haven't used either one yet, but I may throw in some comments about futures without it effecting the comparisons. The comparison column is one man's opinion. A "=" means the two are similar, a "<" or a ">" means that one side is "less good", and the other is "greater". Island 2.3 Open Look Comp. Frame 2.1X ------------------------------ ----- ------------------------------------ Somewhat buggy = Somewhat buggy, especially when used with Open Windows Open Look > Motif Paragraph capability good < Paragraph capability great Weak on large documents < Excellent on large documents Table of Contents = Table of Contents (I haven't tried this) No multi-file book TOC < Multi-file book TOC No Cross References < Good X-Refs No figure/table autonumbering < Good figure/table autonumbering No footnotes < Mediocre footnotes (Being added in 3.0) No endnotes = No endnotes (Being added in 3.0) (Being added in 3.0???) No math capability < Excellent math package No table package = No table package (but 3.0 will have a good one from the previews). Drawing package very good = Drawing package very good (Has bezier curves) (Has "Distribute" and "gravity") Paint package very good > No paint toolkit (I haven't used this much) No color capability < Mediocre color (3.0 adds great color) $995 List (seen for $895) > $2500 List (seen for $2395) $495 Annual support+updates > $700 Annual support+updates (actual cost) 50% Annual support+updates < 28% Annual support+updates (as a percentage of purchase price) Many filters included > Filters cost $995 (Some are weak) (For this I can buy Island!) No military-style support < Good Mil support (Change bars, freeze numbering, etc.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I dson't need math or large documents, so I chose Island. I used Frame at work. I am happy with Island for my home needs (but it just won't do at work!). I expect to buy Island 3.0 and an HP Paintjet if the evaluation goes okay. I also am buying a VideoPix card so I can grab imagery and put it in island. -- David L. Markowitz Solaris Systems Division - Genisco Technology Corporation dav@gtc.com