ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu.ucsc.edu (scritzifchisted ulmo qzutvchsxik) (12/25/88)
(backround: programmer) First problem I had with elm was when I started it up, all the command characters weren't justified in a quick-to-see part of the screen, so I just started poking at intuitive keys. Elm doesn't get a very high mark from ME in intuitive keys (arrow keys I think don't work, I forget specifically, etc.), but it DOES seem to work well enough that way. Then, I wanted to start fooling with its features. So, I hit the prescribed letter, and found that that didn't work. How annoying. Why didn't it work? After abuot 10 seconds I realized that it was because the program EXPECTS ONLY LOWER CASE but tells you to use UPPER case. Is that fixed yet? Also, regarding headers -- yes, novices might be confused about those, perhaps an option (default off) should be installed, perhaps it should be installed default on. However, I would Very Much like a decent mailer which let me edit the headers -- I OFTEN want to add these kinds of lines: reply-to: return-receipt-to: etc. and can't find them in the elm mailer menu. How many times do I ESCZZ~hdabledabledable~v while composing mail messages in Mail and can't even find the option half the time? Probably quite often.
rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) (12/26/88)
In article <5858@saturn.ucsc.edu> ulmo@ssyx.ucsc.edu (Brad Allen) writes:
+(backround: programmer)
+
+First problem I had with elm was when I started it up,
+all the command characters weren't justified in a quick-to-see part
+of the screen, so I just started poking at intuitive keys. Elm doesn't
+get a very high mark from ME in intuitive keys
Santa's elves ... um elm developers don't give high marks to naughty, little
elm users who *refuse* to read the on-screen instructions just because
they aren't aligned to their taste. Santa's elm developers reward elm
users with toys ... um enhancements and bug fixes who make less emotion-laded
remarks.
I'm not picking on Brad here, but as an elm developer, I'd prefer a more
cooperative tone of voice than this group has seen in the past week or two.
This may come across as insulting, but some may find the following sentence
to be useful. Brad's paragraph above would have initially made me feel
more inclined to sympathize with him if he had said:
The command characters in the mini menu are hard for me to find.
Personally, I'd find it better if they were all justified. Is
there a way, this way, or perhaps a better way, to make them
stand out better? Also some of the command keystrokes don't seem
intuitive to me. I find [such and such] confusing. I'd recommend ...
+ (arrow keys I think
+don't work, I forget specifically, etc.)
Up and down arrows should work on the index (main) screen. In ELM 2.2 left
and right arrows have been added to work on the index screen to change
change "pages". Having seen the code for interpreting the escape sequences
sent by arrow keys, it seems ELM relies on certain assumption about the
escape sequences. This is because ELM uses its own ersatz curses. Changing
ELM to the real curses (i.e. not the expanded USG curses, but the subset
of that, i.e. the basic curses found on BSD) would involve a huge rewrite
of ELM, which is not in the offing because I don't think any of the ELM
developers have that sort of time. I myself, as a non-Christmas-celebrator,
am taking advantage of a three day weekend and the fact that my SO is
away this weekend, to work on some truly critical but less visible
problems in ELM. I am not saying this to get anyone's sympathy (working
on ELM is my passion :-) ) but rather to indicate the ELM developers are
indeed very busy.
+ After abuot 10 seconds I realized that it was because the
+program EXPECTS ONLY LOWER CASE but tells you to use UPPER case.
+Is that fixed yet?
Yes. This has been changed in ELM 2.2.
+Also, regarding headers -- yes, novices might be confused about those,
+perhaps an option (default off) should be installed, perhaps it should
+be installed default on.
Well, blocking novices from editing the headers would block them from
changing the cc list, e.g., so I don't think this is a good idea. In
any case this should not be a compiled-in feature (as you propose)
as that would block it for all ELM user's on a system. Rather it could
depend on the "user level" - one of the user settable options.
+ However, I would Very Much like a decent mailer
+which let me edit the headers -- I OFTEN want to add these kinds of lines:
+reply-to:
+return-receipt-to:
+etc. and can't find them in the elm mailer menu.
Reply-to *is* an available header in ELM. You can add Return-receipt-to
as the user-defined header on the header editing screen. These aren't on
the index menu (if that's what you meant by "elm mailer menu") because
header-editing doesn't come into play until *after* you've decided to
"reply", "forward", or "mail" a message. Header editing appears as a choice
on the menu of commands that appear on the bottom of the screen during those
operations.
+How many times do I ESCZZ~hdabledabledable~v while composing mail
+messages in Mail and can't even find the option half the time?
+Probably quite often.
(I'm assuming this is a joke that I would understand if I used the editor
you use, not a request for a change to ELM.)
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX/C Reusable Code Library
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!pbhyf!rob OR rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California