david@wubios.wustl.edu (David J. Camp) (01/28/89)
I would like to see a change in the positioning of the elm menu cursor after a 'u' operation. I usually undelete a message with the intention of looking at it right away, but elm moves the cursor to the next message. I would prefer that it stay on the same message. -David- -- Bitnet: david@wubios.wustl ^ Mr. David J. Camp Internet: david%wubios@wucs1.wustl.edu < * > Box 8067, Biostatistics uucp: uunet!wucs1!wubios!david v 660 South Euclid Washington University Medical School Saint Louis, MO 63110
cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) (02/05/89)
In article <287@wubios.wustl.edu> david@wubios.wustl.edu (David J. Camp) writes: >I would like to see a change in the positioning of the elm menu cursor after >a 'u' operation. I usually undelete a message with the intention of looking >at it right away, but elm moves the cursor to the next message. I would >prefer that it stay on the same message. Seconded. Also when you're working through reading the messages and a save fails it's very annoying to be presented with the next message, the error message getting deleted in the process, when you're certain to want to try again. Rob -- UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!warwick!cudcv PHONE: +44 203 523037 JANET: cudcv@uk.ac.warwick ARPA: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) (02/09/89)
In article <287@wubios.wustl.edu> david@wubios.wustl.edu (David J. Camp) writes: +I would like to see a change in the positioning of the elm menu cursor after +a 'u' operation. I usually undelete a message with the intention of looking +at it right away, but elm moves the cursor to the next message. I would +prefer that it stay on the same message. In article <101@titania.warwick.ac.uk> cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes: +Seconded. Also when you're working through reading the messages and a save +fails it's very annoying to be presented with the next message, the error +message getting deleted in the process, when you're certain to want to try +again. This situation won't occur in ELM 2.2. If the save fails, you are reprompted for the folder name (on the presumption that you've made a typo in the folder name). Then if you abandon the saving command by entering no folder name, the message is NOT marked deleted and the cursor is NOT advanced to the next message. In other words, the deletion and cursor advancement only take place if the saving was successful. -- Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX/C Reusable Code Library Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!pbhyf!rob OR rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California
fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) (02/10/89)
UNdelete operation...] I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the *first place* so that I *can* undelete it! With "resolve=OFF" you have a chance to Undelete right after Deleting, with "resolve=ON" you don't even get this chance. In either case, once the cursor goes off a deleted message, all my attempts to get the cursor back on it to undelete it are in vain; it simply hops over the deleted ones. (Elm 2.1 PL1). ---- Fritz Whittington Texas Instruments, Incorporated I don't even claim these opinions myself! MS 3105 UUCP: killer!ernest!friday!fritz 8505 Forest Lane AT&T: (214)480-6302 Dallas, Texas 75243
rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) (02/11/89)
In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes:
+I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the
+*first place* so that I *can* undelete it! With "resolve=OFF" you have
+a chance to Undelete right after Deleting, with "resolve=ON" you don't
+even get this chance. In either case, once the cursor goes off a
+deleted message, all my attempts to get the cursor back on it to
+undelete it are in vain; it simply hops over the deleted ones.
+(Elm 2.1 PL1).
Although the 'j' and 'k' (and also DOWN and UP arrow) commands move the
cursor skipping over any deleted messages, the 'J' and 'K' commands do
NOT skip deleted messages. Also you can always go directly to a particular
message by entering its message number terminated with a carriage return.
[Gee, this question comes up about once every two months. Maybe we need an
"answers to frequently asked questions".]
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX/C Reusable Code Library
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!pbhyf!rob OR rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, Californiaron@vaxnix.tandy.COM (Ron Light) (02/13/89)
In article <4684@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) writes: >In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: >+I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the [deleted] >[Gee, this question comes up about once every two months. Maybe we need an >"answers to frequently asked questions".] No, maybe you just need to pull the feature *out*, chalk it up to human confusion, and say "well, we tried."
jbayer@ispi.UUCP (Jonathan Bayer) (02/13/89)
In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: >UNdelete operation...] }I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the }*first place* so that I *can* undelete it! With "resolve=OFF" you have }a chance to Undelete right after Deleting, with "resolve=ON" you don't }even get this chance. In either case, once the cursor goes off a }deleted message, all my attempts to get the cursor back on it to }undelete it are in vain; it simply hops over the deleted ones. }(Elm 2.1 PL1). Try using the J and K keys. They still move the bar, and will move it on top of a deleted message. JB -- Jonathan Bayer Beware: The light at the end of the Intelligent Software Products, Inc. tunnel may be an oncoming dragon 19 Virginia Ave. ...uunet!ispi!jbayer Rockville Centre, NY 11570 (516) 766-2867 jbayer@ispi.UUCP
mikes@oakhill.UUCP (Mike Schultz) (02/13/89)
In article <10962@vaxnix.tandy.COM> ron@vaxnix.UUCP (Ron Light) writes: >In article <4684@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) writes: >>In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: >>+I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the >[deleted] >>[Gee, this question comes up about once every two months. Maybe we need an >>"answers to frequently asked questions".] > >No, maybe you just need to pull the feature *out*, chalk it up to human >confusion, and say "well, we tried." It would have helped a lot if this feature was documented in the documentation that was sent out with PL21. (Along with the documenting of the 'J' and 'K' keys.) It would have been even better if whoever did it, didn't muck with the workings of the 'j' 'k' keys (which everyone understood already) and instead defined the 'J' 'K' to be used to skip over the deleted messages. (IMHO ;-)) (This is not to imply that they aren't doing a great job, I just think that as features go, this one wasn't an improvement in the classical sense of the word.) Mike Schultz mikes@oakhill.UUCP
rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) (02/14/89)
In article <1844@oakhill.UUCP> mikes@oakhill.UUCP (Mike Schultz) writes:
+It would have helped a lot if this feature was documented in the documentation
+that was sent out with PL21. (Along with the documenting of the 'J' and 'K'
+keys.) It would have been even better if whoever did it, didn't muck with the
+workings of the 'j' 'k' keys (which everyone understood already) and instead
+defined the 'J' 'K' to be used to skip over the deleted messages. (IMHO ;-))
Agreed. The ELM 2.0 (or whatever it was called) that was turned over to
the development group (several months ago when the development group
formed out of this newsgroup) already had this change in it, so it
was something the development group inherited, not introduced.
The documentation has since been fixed - in the forthcoming ELM 2.2.
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX/C Reusable Code Library
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!pbhyf!rob OR rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, Californiamike@pcsbst.UUCP (Mike Schroeder) (02/19/89)
In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: >UNdelete operation...] >I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the >*first place* so that I *can* undelete it! With "resolve=OFF" you have [.....] Try accessing the message to be undeleted by explicitly adressing it by it's number! This works for me at least (never mind whether resolve is ON or OFF). All this is Elm 2.1 PL1 Cheers --- Mike Schroeder PCS-Mail: msc SNAIL: PCS GmbH; Pfaelzer-Wald-Str. 36; D-8000 Muenchen 90; W. Germany UUCP: msc@pcsbst.uucp or ...uunet!unido!pcsbst!cochise!mike or ...pyramid!pcsbst!cochise!mike VOICE: xx49-89-68004208
cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) (02/21/89)
In article <4684@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) writes: >In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: >+I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the >+*first place* so that I *can* undelete it! > >[Gee, this question comes up about once every two months. Maybe we need an >"answers to frequently asked questions".] I've answered this question more than once too. I think this proves that it's failed experiment---although the help menu tells you you can use `u' to undelete an item, it gives you no clue as to how to get to it, and `K' is certainly not something you'd just happen to try on the off chance. I would suggest that `j', `k' normally do *not* skip deleted items---you're not normally moving over so many that it makes a significant difference---use `J', `K' for that. It's okay for commands (like `d') that move the cursor as a side effect. Rob -- UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!warwick!cudcv PHONE: +44 203 523037 JANET: cudcv@uk.ac.warwick ARPA: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) (02/23/89)
In article <108@titania.warwick.ac.uk> cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes: +In article <4684@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) writes: +>In article <673@friday.UUCP> fritz@friday.UUCP (Fritz Whittington) writes: +>+I haven't been able to get the cursor *on* the deleted message in the +>+*first place* so that I *can* undelete it! +> +>[Gee, this question comes up about once every two months. Maybe we need an +>"answers to frequently asked questions".] + +I've answered this question more than once too. I think this proves that it's +failed experiment---although the help menu tells you you can use `u' to +undelete an item, it gives you no clue as to how to get to it, and `K' is +certainly not something you'd just happen to try on the off chance. No it's not a failed experiment. Unless someone was experimenting to see how many people won't read the documentation or use the ELM help system. -- Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX/C Reusable Code Library Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!pbhyf!rob OR rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E850O San Ramon Valley Administrative Center Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California
cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) (03/02/89)
[Re: how to move onto a deleted message to undelete it] >In article <108@titania.warwick.ac.uk> I wrote: >I've answered this question more than once too. I think this proves that >it's [a] failed experiment In article <4744@pbhyf.PacBell.COM> rob@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Rob Bernardo) writes: >No it's not a failed experiment. Unless someone was experimenting to see how >many people won't read the documentation or use the ELM help system. I'm afraid that needs no experimentation. My experience is that many people are not willing to put in the effort unless really forced. If they can't understand something they're much more likely to just give up and call the software names, or complain to me, than invest the time to read the documentation. Online documentation is better, but there is no mention of `J' & `K', even on the `??' screen, and note that even if you knew the command beforehand, `?K' gives you the documentation for lower-case `k'---no clues there. Rob -- UUCP: ...!mcvax!ukc!warwick!cudcv PHONE: +44 203 523037 JANET: cudcv@uk.ac.warwick ARPA: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England