sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) (09/20/89)
How about adding a finger command to elm? Specifically, the fI)nger command would attempt to do a finger(1) on the sender of the current message. Or perhaps a menu: finger: C(urrent, E(nter Current will do a finger on the sender of the currently selected message. Enter would allow you to enter an address. This would allow you to receive a message and quickly find out if the person who sent it is still in his office, logged in, etc. This can help you set priorities. For example if someone has asked for some important information you can find out if they are online. If they are you try and get it to them quickly. If not you can put it aside temporarily. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca uunet!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax)
scs@itivax.iti.org (Steve Simmons) (09/20/89)
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >How about adding a finger command to elm? >[details about how it would look to the user] >This would allow you to receive a message and quickly find out if the person >who sent it is still in his office, logged in, etc. This can help you set >priorities. For example if someone has asked for some important information >you can find out if they are online. If they are you try and get it to them >quickly. If not you can put it aside temporarily. I think this is overkill and non-portable. On hosts which support the finger command already, the keystrokes !finger will do what you want. On machines that don't have finger we'd have to re-implement it (which has already been done in various forms). Elm is a mail reading tool, not a systems/user inquiry tool. Leave fingerint to the finger command. -- Steve Simmons scs@vax3.iti.org Industrial Technology Institute Ann Arbor, MI. "Velveeta -- the Spam of Cheeses!" -- Uncle Bonsai
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) (09/21/89)
In article <3832@itivax.iti.org> scs@itivax.iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes: > >I think this is overkill and non-portable. On hosts which support >the finger command already, the keystrokes !finger will do what you >want. On machines that don't have finger we'd have to re-implement >it (which has already been done in various forms). Elm is a mail >reading tool, not a systems/user inquiry tool. Leave fingerint to >the finger command. Hm, I just tried !finger from the elm command line and got a list of the users running on van-bc. Not quite what I wanted or suggested. Specifically what I want is to run finger with the address of the sender of the message that is currently selected. For example if I have a message from scs@itivax.iti.org the the finger command should be the equivalent of: finger scs@itivax.iti.org And try typing that from memory without making a mistake. jtc@tessera.wimsey.bc.ca made a different suggestion. How about a different way to allow another program to be run using the sender of the the current message as the arguement. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca uunet!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax)
aem@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) (09/21/89)
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >How about adding a finger command to elm? No, no, no. Please no more features that don't belong in a MUA! What is wrong with '!finger user' ? If someone really wants to make all these-type features available in elm, how about writing a command macro facility rather than additional little 'features'? No, I'm not willing to do it. I have enough work here already. aem a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion If I loved a woman, the more I loved her, the more I wanted to hurt her. - Diego Rivera
mike@cochise (09/22/89)
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes:
->How about adding a finger command to elm?
->Specifically, the fI)nger command would attempt to do a finger(1) on the
->sender of the current message. Or perhaps a menu:
->
-> finger: C(urrent, E(nter
->Current will do a finger on the sender of the currently selected message.
->Enter would allow you to enter an address.
->This would allow you to receive a message and quickly find out if the person
->who sent it is still in his office, logged in, etc. This can help you set
->priorities. For example if someone has asked for some important information
->you can find out if they are online. If they are you try and get it to them
->quickly. If not you can put it aside temporarily.
Not a bad idea. But how would you deal with multiple machines in
one office/company/organization? IMO, (note the lack of _H_ 8-)
this would be a masterful task indeed - ascs@itivax.iti.org (Steve Simmons) (09/22/89)
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >In article <3832@itivax.iti.org> scs@itivax.iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes: >> >>I think this is overkill and non-portable. On hosts which support >>the finger command already, the keystrokes !finger will do what you >>want. . . >Hm, I just tried !finger from the elm command line and got a list of the >users running on van-bc. Not quite what I wanted or suggested. So shoot me for brevity :-). Try !finger scs@itivax.iti.org if you're on the internet, and you'll get what you're looking for. >And try typing that from memory without making a mistake. True, but is this feature worth the trouble of duplicating finger? For the purposes you mention (finding out if someone is at their desk) how often will you have to type 'user@site'? And what about mailers which do 'hidden-net' and hide the actual host from you? -- Steve Simmons scs@vax3.iti.org Industrial Technology Institute Ann Arbor, MI. "Velveeta -- the Spam of Cheeses!" -- Uncle Bonsai
mike@cochise (09/22/89)
next try:
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes:
->How about adding a finger command to elm?
->Specifically, the fI)nger command would attempt to do a finger(1) on the
->sender of the current message. Or perhaps a menu:
->
-> finger: C(urrent, E(nter
->Current will do a finger on the sender of the currently selected message.
->Enter would allow you to enter an address.
->This would allow you to receive a message and quickly find out if the person
->who sent it is still in his office, logged in, etc. This can help you set
->priorities. For example if someone has asked for some important information
->you can find out if they are online. If they are you try and get it to them
->quickly. If not you can put it aside temporarily.
Not a bad idea. But how would you deal with multiple machines in
one office/company/organization? IMO, (note the lack of _H_ 8-)tim@attdso.att.com (Tim J Ihde) (09/23/89)
In article <292@van-bc.UUCP> sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >jtc@tessera.wimsey.bc.ca made a different suggestion. How about a different >way to allow another program to be run using the sender of the the current >message as the arguement. Sounds good, but I would rather have a more general tool. How about whenever a !<command> is executed, the first argument passed to <command> is the current message number. That way, readmsg can be used by <command> to access the message itself and get anything you want out of it: sender, subject, path, or anything else in the header. -- Tim J Ihde INTERNET: tim@attdso.att.com (201) 898-6687 UUCP: att!attdso!tim
sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) (09/23/89)
In article <1063@pcsbst.UUCP> mike@cochise writes: >next try: > > ->Specifically, the fI)nger command would attempt to do a finger(1) on the > ->sender of the current message. Or perhaps a menu: > -> > -> finger: C(urrent, E(nter > >Not a bad idea. But how would you deal with multiple machines in >one office/company/organization? IMO, (note the lack of _H_ 8-) Note I suggested use of finger(1). What I want is about a dozen lines of code that do a system call to finger(1) with the address of the person who sent the currently selected message. If my system doesn't have finger it will fail. If my system can't parse the address it will fail. If the address given is hiding behind another site it will fail. On the other hand if I have a valid address that finger(1) can grok I might just get some interesting information. Other people have suggested use of !finger .... . I agree that this works fine. It's just that re-typing information into a computer that already has it is kind of silly. And prone to error (especially mail addresses). The computer is supposed to be a labour saving device - right? The best suggestion is to add some sort of macro language support to the "!" facility, so that finger(1) or any other command can be called with interesting tidbit's of information about the current message. For example today I wished that not only could I call finger(1) but pathto(1). With the -v option to see how smail 3 would attempt to deliver a problem address. Had to switch to another screen and go back and forth a few times to make sure that the 40 character address was entered correctly. pathto -v info%ndsuvm1.bitnet@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca info%ndsuvm1.bitnet@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca: ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca matched by inet_hosts: routed info%ndsuvm1.bitnet@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca --> info%ndsuvm1.bitnet at ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca!ndsuvm1.bitnet!info Anyhow, it's been fun. -- Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca uunet!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax)
wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) (09/23/89)
I'm still hoping for the ability to have elm called by rn.
Rod looked at this some months ago, and said a new startup
option switch would be needed.
Especially if that works, I am also looking for a scrolling
text review function in the same manner as rn. Some people may
not be able to see why I am asking for this. I feel strongly
that compared to in vi, it is a hell of a lot easier to spot
foot-in-mouth typos when you can read it as it scrolls by.
Flash! Murphy gets look and feel copyright on sendmail.cf
{gatech!} wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (305) 255-RTFMjgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) (09/23/89)
From article <819@umigw.MIAMI.EDU>, by wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher): > I'm still hoping for the ability to have elm called by rn. > Rod looked at this some months ago, and said a new startup > option switch would be needed. > Yeah, and me too! I use the "vn" newsreader, and I use Elm. I *always* save a copy of outgoing messages. They are a useful record of what I send out, and besides that I'm paranoid -- I want that record of what I said just in case someone else has "different ideas". In any case, I can't get Elm to work "properly" as the mailer from vn, probably for the same reasons it doesn't work from rn. And the mailer that I *can* use lacks the ability to save copies of outgoing messages. I should note that the mailer is invoked as "<mailer> <filename>", where <mailer> is something like /usr/ucb/Mail, and <filename> is a previously created file containing the entire message, headers and all -- specifically, the "To:" and "Subject:" headers are in this file. I see no facility in Elm (currently) to allow this form of input. (Unless, as is always possible, I have missed the obvious.) -- John G Dobnick Computing Services Division @ University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee INTERNET: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu UUCP: <backbone>!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!jgd "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire
zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us (Jon Zeeff) (09/24/89)
Sometime I just type "| smail jon" from rn and then pop into another window
running elm to respond to the article.
--
Branch Technology | zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us
| Ann Arbor, MIles@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) (09/27/89)
In article <170@uwm.edu> jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >From article <819@umigw.MIAMI.EDU>, by wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher): >In any case, I can't get Elm to work "properly" as the mailer from vn, >probably for the same reasons it doesn't work from rn. And the mailer >that I *can* use lacks the ability to save copies of outgoing messages. Can't you just add yourself in a Cc: or Bcc: header line? Most mailers that parse the To: line from the message file know about Cc:, Bcc: and multiple To:'s. Then you can retreive your copy with elm and put it whever you like. Les Mikesell
stevesc@microsoft.UUCP (Steve Schonberger) (09/29/89)
There have been a few notes suggesting how to get elm to work as the mailer for various newsreaders. WHY ? The reasons you use a mailer from a newsreader are very different from the reasons you use a mailer by itself. When using a mailer from a newsreader there is one thing that you ordinarily want to do, and that is to mail to the writer of the article. Some people like to keep copies for themselves too (myself included, frequently). elm is not the solution Elm is wonderful for its intended purpose, reading mail, and originating mail. The good reply address parsing, aliases, header editing, and so forth are all really handy for originating mail. But they don't do you any good in replying to news messages. Why clutter it with features to make it work better for something for which its good points go to waste? the solution to the file copy matter in news replies I really thought elm's ability to keep copies of outgoing mail was neat. I thought it would be a great feature to have in a newsreader's mailer too. I tried elm maybe twice and decided that wasn't a job elm had any business doing. There are two solutions. One is to CC yourself on any mail that's worth keeping. That has the advantages that you can deal with it in your mailbox with elm as you wish, and that you only make copies of things that you want copies of. The disadvantage is that it's not automatic, and if you forget you don't have a copy of it at all. The other solution (which I've used), is to use a shell script as your editor. The shell script takes a file, makes a copy of it in /tmp, and passes it to a real editor. If the file returned by the editor is the same as the copy in /tmp, you ignore it. If it's different, you do something like "echo `date | cut -c??-??` >> ~/savemail ; echo other-elm-compatible-headers >> ~/savemail ; cat $maileditfile >> ~/savemail" in the script. You can have your newsreader use that shell script as its "editor" with a newsreader dependent initialization line, possibly something like "set NEWSEDITOR=~/savemaileditor" in .profile, .cshrc, or the .(newsreader)rc file. shell scripts are easy! shell scripts are fun! Almost anything you can do in C can be done easier with shell scripts, unless performance is a concern, or stuff like screen handling or specialized system calls (like mailbox locking, in elm's case) are needed. A huge number of feature suggestions I read in comp.mail.elm are very easy to solve with shell scripts (I recently added an "elmu" c-shell alias for elm -f ~/Mail/[username] to read mail folders, for example). A lot of others can be solved by RTFM (Reading The Manual). If you don't know how to write shell scripts, learn! Or ask friends in ways that challenge their creativity. The elm developers (which I'd love to have the time to be one of) have enough things to do that can only be done well in C to bother with things that can easily be done with shell scripts. -- Steve Schonberger microsoft!stevesc@uunet.uu.net "Working under pressure is the sugar that we crave" --A. Lamb
jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) (09/29/89)
From article <9674@chinet.chi.il.us>, by les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell): > In article <170@uwm.edu> jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: >>From article <819@umigw.MIAMI.EDU>, by wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher): >>> [Question about using Elm as a reply agent for newsreaders] >> >>In any case, I can't get Elm to work "properly" as the mailer from vn, >>probably for the same reasons it doesn't work from rn. And the mailer >>that I *can* use lacks the ability to save copies of outgoing messages. > > Can't you just add yourself in a Cc: or Bcc: header line? > Most mailers that parse the To: line from the message file > know about Cc:, Bcc: and multiple To:'s. > Then you can retreive your copy with elm and put it whever you like. > [Me again]... I can, and I do, manually insert the Cc: headers. When I don't forget. :-) But this only clutters up my own mailbox, and then *I* have to save the message somewhere, and... Anyway, this is what computers are supposed to do *for* me. It's not a question of "it can't be done", but of "it's so damn inconvenient to do it at all". I am now forced to decide whether I want to be inconvenienced by doing things *manually* :-( or abandon functionality for the "convenience" of the software doing only half the job. This shouldn't be. Thus: It would be nice if Elm did... -- John G Dobnick Computing Services Division @ University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee INTERNET: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu UUCP: uunet!uwm!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!jgd "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire
mike@cochise (09/30/89)
jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) writes: ->From article <9674@chinet.chi.il.us>, by les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell): ->> In article <170@uwm.edu> jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes: ->>>From article <819@umigw.MIAMI.EDU>, by wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher): ->>>> [Question about using Elm as a reply agent for newsreaders] ->>> [ lot's of stuff deleted ] for all of you out there who want to have automagic saves of all replies and follow-ups saved, there's a simple solution: use Kim Storm's nn news reader package! It does all you want. PS: I've been using nn ever since 6.3 arrived, and it's great! (Hey Kim, are you listening? ;-) --- Mike Schroeder PCS-Mail: msc DOMAIN: msc@cochise.pcs.de (EUR) or msc@cochise.pcs.com (US) BANG: ..unido!pcsbst!msc (EUR) or ..pyramid!pcsbst!msc (US)
asjl@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andy Linton) (10/02/89)
I may be being naive about this business of using "elm" to reply to new articles but this is how I handle it (or should I say make the computer do the work!). I simply have an "rn" macro thus: @m |/usr/lib/sendmail asjl & (If your underlying mail agent is other than sendmail this is not for you but you get the idea!) When I see an article I want to reply to I hit '@m' inside "rn" and carry on reading the news. This has two advantages: 1) I can continue in "news reading" mode with my brain on auto pilot. 2) I see any subsequent related articles before I throw in my two (cents|pence|...) Later, when inside 'elm' I see a mail message to which I can just compose a normal reply with whatever 'elm' features I normally use. Now can we leave "elm" alone please (:-) andy -- EMAIL = Andy.Linton@comp.vuw.ac.nz PHONE = +64 4 721 000 x8978 FAX = +64 4 712 070 SNAIL = Computer Science Dept, Victoria University, Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
aem@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) (10/05/89)
mike@cochise writes: >From article <819@umigw.MIAMI.EDU>, by wb8foz@ibiza.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher): > [Question about using Elm as a reply agent for newsreaders] >for all of you out there who want to have automagic saves of all >replies and follow-ups saved, there's a simple solution: >use Kim Storm's nn news reader package! I (as system administrator of *.cs.miami.edu) have tried unsuccesfully to get "wb8foz" to switch to nn, to the point where I no longer support use of "rn" or other ancient packages. No luck. He insists on using it. aem -- a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion If all the girls attending it [the Yale Prom] were laid end to end, I wouldn't be at all surprised. - Dorothy Parker