abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) (02/11/91)
I have two simple questions about Elm: o Is that true that you can not send mail to a file using Elm? If no, how can I do this, if yes would it be possible to include this thing a new version of Elm? o The other question deals with, yes, aliases. They are more or less used to simplify the addresses of persons whom you often send your mail. That is ok. But there beside them exists automatic folder system which puts your incoming and outgoing mail into certain folders. If your frined has an email address friend@hjk.kjks.kjgk this is easy. I mean it is easy to remember his real username. But quite often it happens that usernames are not so simple (e.g. ix78yom@kjhdgkh.kjfkshjk). In this case the mail is saved in folder named "ix78yom" and not "friend". Does there exist a possibility to do saving in folder "frined" in this case? If this would be true than the change of folder would easier as well. Does it have any sense to try to include the above options in the source of version 2.3 as we have it here? Would it be possible at all? What about 2.4? Thanx for answers Andrej
syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein) (02/11/91)
abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: >o Is that true that you can not send mail to a file using Elm? If no, how can >I do this, if yes would it be possible to include this thing a new version of >Elm? While you cannot send mail to a file, you can save a message in a file, including an outbound one, so while it is not an option on the To: line, it is a menu option, both for saving a message from the mailbox and for sending a message. One cannot send a message only to a file however. No such capability is on the drawing boards, not is it likely to be. >o The other question deals with, yes, aliases. They are more or less used to >simplify the addresses of persons whom you often send your mail. That is ok. >But there beside them exists automatic folder system which puts your incoming >and outgoing mail into certain folders. If your frined has an email address >friend@hjk.kjks.kjgk this is easy. I mean it is easy to remember his real >username. But quite often it happens that usernames are not so simple (e.g. >ix78yom@kjhdgkh.kjfkshjk). In this case the mail is saved in folder named >"ix78yom" and not "friend". Does there exist a possibility to do saving in >folder "frined" in this case? If this would be true than the change of folder >would easier as well. While what you ask looks easy, we have discussed it and its not so easy. First off, friend may map to user@fqdn and that translation is rather easy, but mail comes in with may id's and paths, and many are not the same as user@fqdn even though they are from user@fqdn. The problem is even worse for sitea!siteb!sitec!user where the paths can change, and what constitutes a match (sitec!user is not unique in the uucp world) And on received messages, which line to you use for the mapping? 'From ', 'From: ', 'Reply-To', 'Sender' (They do differ) We decided rather than have things get mapped wrong, to punt the issue for now. If a consensus for how to map things and how to handle conflicts comes up, this one is open for re-discussion, perhaps in 3.0. >Does it have any sense to try to include the above options in the source of >version 2.3 as we have it here? Would it be possible at all? What about 2.4? No, these are not on the table for 2.4. -- ===================================================================== Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP Elm Coordinator Datacomp Systems, Inc. Voice: (215) 947-9900 syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd FAX: (215) 938-0235
mmuegel@camdev.comm.mot.com (Mike "Happy" Muegel) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.021555.10503@watdragon.waterloo.edu> abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: >... The other question deals with, yes, aliases. They are more or less used to >simplify the addresses of persons whom you often send your mail. That is ok. >But there beside them exists automatic folder system which puts your incoming >and outgoing mail into certain folders. If your frined has an email address >friend@hjk.kjks.kjgk this is easy. I mean it is easy to remember his real >username. But quite often it happens that usernames are not so simple (e.g. >ix78yom@kjhdgkh.kjfkshjk). In this case the mail is saved in folder named >"ix78yom" and not "friend". Does there exist a possibility to do saving in >folder "frined" in this case? If this would be true than the change of folder >would easier as well. This has been on my wish list also. I deal with users from so many systems who all use different syntax for login-ids. When I make aliases for people I always make them fit our syntax for logins (initial of first name, last name up to 7 characters). I like to save mail this way to so I have turned off the autosave feature. Here are two "wants" I have been meaning to post: * A way to allow automatic save of read mail to a folder WITHOUT having outgoing mail be saved to that same folder. E.g. I like to save all outgoing mail in one place but still save incomming mail by the user's login-id or alias. From my experience with Elm at PL11 this is not possible. Have it save by alias if a match can be found. * A way to automatically encrypt mail with the key being the user's local password. I think this would be just dandy to quickly encrypt mail. It would also be more secure since you would never have to exchange keys. Is this possible or does Elm use it own encryption algorithm (and not crypt())? All that would be required would be some catch that says "use the user's password as the key." -Mike -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Mike Muegel | Internet: mmuegel@mot.com | | Software Tools Group | UUCP: uunet!motcid!muegel | | Fort Worth Research & Development Center | Voice: (817) 232-6129 | | Cellular Infrastructure Group | Fax: (817) 232-6081 | | Radio Telephone and Systems Group | Mail: 5555 North Beach St. | | Motorola, Inc. | Fort Worth, TX 76137 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Chip Rosenthal) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.021555.10503@watdragon.waterloo.edu> abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: >Does there exist a possibility to do saving in folder "frined" in this case? $ cd $HOME/Mail $ ln ix78yom frined ^^[sic] -- Chip Rosenthal 512-482-8260 | Unicom Systems Development | I saw Elvis in my wtmp file. <chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM> |
navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra) (02/12/91)
In article <1991Feb11.021555.10503@watdragon.waterloo.edu> abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: >username. But quite often it happens that usernames are not so simple (e.g. >ix78yom@kjhdgkh.kjfkshjk). In this case the mail is saved in folder named >"ix78yom" and not "friend". Does there exist a possibility to do saving in >folder "frined" in this case? If this would be true than the change of folder >would easier as well. Why not use filters and save mail from ix78yom to a file in your mail dir called $HOME/Mail/friend? ---------------------------- navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (John Navarra) (02/12/91)
In article <363@camdev.comm.mot.com?> mmuegel@camdev.comm.mot.com (Mike "Happy" Muegel) writes: > * A way to automatically encrypt mail with the key being the user's local > password. I think this would be just dandy to quickly encrypt mail. It > would also be more secure since you would never have to exchange keys. Is > this possible or does Elm use it own encryption algorithm (and not > crypt())? All that would be required would be some catch that says > "use the user's password as the key." > >-Mike I don't think this is such a _good_ idea -- crypt, des, etc are NOT very secure (and I personally know some people who have decryption software lying around) I would not like the idea of mail sent to me being encrypted with MY passwd!!! First of all that would mean that I would have to give out my passwd to a number of people (which is not recommended -- or downright not allowed) at some institutions. Furthermore, if you consider the number of sights that most mail has to go thru to get to you, which could be tampered with anywhere along the way -- it would not be wise to let any "bad" fellows out there have a chance at cracking your passwd if they knew that this was the default. And since such evildoers are not necessarily close by, it is just not a good idea to allow someone at a remote sight possible access to your account. If you are not convinced, send me an encrypted message with your passwd as the key (and don't tell me what the key is) and assuming you do not change itwithin a few days, I will get back to you with a NOT so pleasant surprise!! Besides, I think it is MUCH more secure (and not that much of a pain) to have a pre-arranged key or make something up that only you and the receiver would know the answer to in the mail message. Really, if you are that worried about people reading your mail that you encrypt it, why would you not be worried about someone getting a hold of your passwd! >+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Mike Muegel | Internet: mmuegel@mot.com | >| Software Tools Group | UUCP: uunet!motcid!muegel | >| Fort Worth Research & Development Center | Voice: (817) 232-6129 | >| Cellular Infrastructure Group | Fax: (817) 232-6081 | >| Radio Telephone and Systems Group | Mail: 5555 North Beach St. | >| Motorola, Inc. | Fort Worth, TX 76137 | >+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ --------------------------- from the lab of the MaD ScIenTist: navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
leilabd@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Leila Burrell-Davis) (02/12/91)
abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: > o The other question deals with, yes, aliases. They are more or less used to > simplify the addresses of persons whom you often send your mail. That is ok. > But there beside them exists automatic folder system which puts your incoming > and outgoing mail into certain folders. If your frined has an email address > friend@hjk.kjks.kjgk this is easy. I mean it is easy to remember his real > username. But quite often it happens that usernames are not so simple (e.g. > ix78yom@kjhdgkh.kjfkshjk). In this case the mail is saved in folder named > "ix78yom" and not "friend". Does there exist a possibility to do saving in > folder "frined" in this case? If this would be true than the change of folder > would easier as well. I regularly exchange mail with someone who has accounts with two different usernames on different machines, linda on one and lindac on the other. She may mail me from either account and I may mail her at either. So that copies of the mail all go in the same file, I have created a file 'linda' and another, 'lindac', which is a hard link to it. This works very well for me. Maybe you could do something similar and create a link 'friend' to file 'ix78yom', so that you can refer to your friend by either name. Leila -- Leila Burrell-Davis, Computing Service, University of Sussex, Brighton, UK Tel: +44 273 678390 Fax: +44 273 678470 Email: leilabd@syma.sussex.ac.uk (JANET: leilabd@uk.ac.sussex.syma)
abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) (02/14/91)
In article <1846@chinacat.Unicom.COM> chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM (Chip Rosenthal) writes: >In article <1991Feb11.021555.10503@watdragon.waterloo.edu> > abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) writes: >>Does there exist a possibility to do saving in folder "frined" in this case? > > $ cd $HOME/Mail > $ ln ix78yom frined > ^^[sic] Hm, not very useful. Can you imagine, that when you create a new alias, you have to make a symbolic link as well? And even more, can you imagine, that you further distribute your alias file to some other machine, and you will have to make the symbolic links there as well? I think, that the only real solution for this problem is to make Elm more consistant with aliases. What I want to say is that currently aliases in Elm are only given as a help and not as its real part. Namely when you define an alias (or give a name to any thing or person), from that moment that person is known _only_ through this new name. So when you would say "friend" (or frined:-) it is friend and not that funny name there. And so everything what depends on his name should depend on "friend". Am I right? Is this possible to do in Elm? Did somebody have any similar idea already? Regards Andrej PS: The next step would be something on the level of Unix (similar to VMS), where a certain alias would have the same meaning anywhere.
abrodnik@watdragon.waterloo.edu (Andrej Brodnik (Andy)) (03/01/91)
Let me first thank to everybody who tried to help me. The final result of this help is not what I really wanted. Let me first refresh your memory about my problems. The bigger one was with the aliases and my "friend" having such a strange username. Many people proposed a solution using filters. It came up, that I learned to use them (this was really good), but still not get what I wanted. There were at least two problems. The first one was, since I want to read first all my mail and then put it in proper folders. Ok, this can be solved by putting in folders and in my mail-box at the same time using filters. But this is still not ok, since some mail I definetly would not like to save in folders. The second problem using this approach is the outgoing mail, which can be saved only (automatically) in folder of the recepients username. This is unsolvable (virtually) with a usage of filters. Therefore some people proposed another solution. It was not Elm kind, but Unix kind (If I say so). They proposed to create a hardlink from file "friend" to the real one. This is feasible if my friend would be the only alias I am using, but as it is not -- this is not completly usable solution. So to conclude, thanx again to everybody who answered and especially to Syd. He agreed that the only "real" solution would be to name folders according to aliases. But as he pointed out already in one of postings this doesn't seem to be implemented soon because of lot of problems. Therefore I'd suggest that all together would try to (as he suggested already to me) to define the algorithm to compute an alias from the address. Regards to everybody Andrej PS: I tried to think about that problem, but finally I realized, that I do not even completly understand the mail's header. Can somebody explain me all that lines, please?