[comp.protocols.tcp-ip] Moderated Newsgroup Posting

AIVANO@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU (06/02/88)

Path: venus!aivano
From: aivano@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: mail.tcp-ip
Subject: Public Domain TN3270
Message-ID: <27@venus.ycc.yale.edu>
Date: 1 Jun 88 14:05:48 GMT
Organisation: VMS NEWS V4.0
Lines: 11

Is there a public domain TN3270 program that runs under VMS and can
interface with Wollongong's TCP/IP?  We would prefer to have source code
so that we could write our own interface, but could live with a
documented executable that includes an interface to the Wollongong
TCP/IP.

Please send replies directly to me,
Sandy Aivano
Yale Computer Center
AIVANO@YALEVMS (BITNET)
AIVANO@YALEVMS.YCC.YALE.EDU (ARPA)

LEICHTER@Venus.YCC.Yale.EDU ("Jerry Leichter ", LEICHTER-JERRY@CS.YALE.EDU) (08/06/88)

Path: venus!leichter
From: leichter@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: mail.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Ken Olsen on TCP/IP
Message-ID: <34@venus.ycc.yale.edu>
Date: 5 Aug 88 17:01:31 GMT
References: <venus mail.tcp-ip:1807>
Organisation: VMS NEWS V4.0
Lines: 32

In article <venus mail.tcp-ip:1807>, jqj@hogg.cc.uoregon.EDU writes:
> Quoted without permission from Digital News, August 1, 1988:
> 
> "Our attitude with TCP/IP is, 'Hey, we'll do it, but don't make a big
> system, because we can't fix it if it breaks.'"
> 
> Does this reflect a lack of confidence in the Ultrix group?

The actual, full quote - from Ken Olsen - is:

	"Our attitude with TCP/IP is, 'Hey, we'll do it, but don't make a big
	 system, because we can't fix it if it breaks - nobody can.'"
						     -------------

It's generally considered unfair to quote out of context.  To CHANGE the con-
text - to deliberately mark something as a full sentence, with no indication
that you've left out part of the text, a part which changes the mean of what
came before - is bad enough.  To then continue on and ask a question based on
the falsely-imputed meaning is downright dishonest.

Olsen goes on to clarify what he means even further:

	"TCP/IP is OK if you've got a little informal club, and it doesn't
	 make any difference if it takes a while to fix it."

Now, you can disagree with this statement - probably most of the readers of
this list WILL disagree, though perhaps not all.  But there's a world of
difference between disagreeing on the merits, and the intellectual dishonesty
of picking words OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF A SENTENCE and ascribing a new meaning
to them that wasn't there to start with.

							-- Jerry

jqj@HOGG.CC.UOREGON.EDU (08/08/88)

It was clearly wrong of me to have elided an elision symbol after 
my quotation.  However, I rather resent being called "downright
dishonest."  Granted that Olsen clearly believes that the problem is
TCP/IP, not any incompetence of the Ultrix group, remember that he
sells a product -- Ultrix -- that includes support for networking.  It
would seem to me that the thrust of the quotation remains that Olsen is
not serious about delivering the TCP/IP based Ultrix networking that
DEC advertises.  Phrased differently, I believe it fair to conclude
that Olsen in fact has no confidence that his Ultrix group can deliver 
on DEC's marketing promises.

Another quotation out of context from the same source:  "VAX is VMS."

This discussion is rapidly shifting away from topics of interest to
the TCP-IP mailing list, and to ones more appropriate to INFO-VAX.