stev@VAX.FTP.COM (11/03/88)
*Heck, if you speak out, others will quote you. *Sigh, *Dan *------- that is "misquote", dan. (or are *you* misquoting?)(or should we just misquote you) it is bad enough that articles misquote someone, i would like to think that most of them dont know they are mucking it up, rather than not caring or trying to twist things to prove their point. i would be saddened to see people stop posting here because they are scared of being mis-quoted . . . . . . . . . stev knowles ftp-software stev@ftp.com
LYNCH@A.ISI.EDU (Dan Lynch) (11/03/88)
Stev, The press does a mixed job, for sure. But they fill a need for many persons who want to get a feel of what is going on "out there". I look upon it as "awareness training". When I see enough articles about something I am peripherally interested in, I then do something more "serious" about gettin gthe next level of information. I remember having the follwoing three experiences in my life with the press: 1) When I was 16 I got in a fender bender in my small town. It got in the local paper, of course! The article had me going north instead of south, driving the other person's vehicle make, etc. They did, however, get my name right. 2) A few years ago there was a Datamation article about me and my efforts to resolve theissue of whether there was going to be a big push to mandate TCP/IP protocol testing. The article had numerous "quotes" from me and from at least a half dozen other persons. Essentially every "fact" in the article was wrong. (All the numbers were off by a factor of at least 10 and in random directions!) The "story" was, however, very accurate. 3) A few months ago I had a long interview with some reporter about the evolution of TCP/IP. In our conversation I told the reporter about some of my (dark) past and one item had to do with how I worked on managing the transition from the old NCP protocols to the new TCP/IP protocols. In the ensuing printed article the reporter said that I led the conversion of IBM's Network Control Program for the 360/370 architecture to Arpanet. That poor reporter took my acronym, NCP, and translated it to something quite normal in the "real world". No harm. No one called me up and called me a charlatan because I actually know nothing about IBM's NCP! In short, Stev, you are right! Just say it the best way you know how and take the "losses in translation". That's the beauty of humans. They can compensate for a lot of bogosity. If, howsomever, they take a tight, efficient, accurate algorithm from someone like Van Jacobson and contort it in any way, it cannot be compiled by a computer, for sure. Now that I've started and ended this with "Valley Speak", Ciao, Dan -------
mckee@MITRE.ARPA (H. Craig McKee) (11/03/88)
>In short, Stev, you are right! Just say it the best way you know how >and take the "losses in translation". That's the beauty of humans. >They can compensate for a lot of bogosity. If, howsomever, they take >a tight, efficient, accurate algorithm from someone like Van Jacobson and >contort it in any way, it cannot be compiled by a computer, for sure. In the tradition of getting the facts wrong but the story right: The closing reference to Van Jacobson and a compiler reminds me of an old story about someone who worked for Sperry. For amusement, he would submit the inter-office memos to a COBOL complier; about 1/4 of the memos would compile. Regards - Craig
bzs@pinocchio.UUCP (Barry Shein) (11/06/88)
From: stev@vax.ftp.com >it is bad enough that articles misquote someone, i would like to think >that most of them dont know they are mucking it up, rather than not caring >or trying to twist things to prove their point. Although I agree with you in spirit I'd be happy to ship you a transcript of CBS's coverage on their evening news report of the Hacker's Convention a few weeks ago. They blatantly and consciously lied, clipped out of context, overlaid sensationalist narrative to turn what was basically a benign convention of computer nerds into some sort of conspiratorial assembly of criminals, it was unbelievable. Here is part of the opening: ---------- Narrator (trees and outdoor scenes at conference): A small revolutionary army is meeting in the hills above California's Silicon Valley this weekend, plotting their next attacks on the valley below, the heart of the nation's computer industry. They call themselves computer hackers. ---------- The rest is worse. -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
bzs@pinocchio.UUCP (Barry Shein) (11/06/88)
If I can give some small, oft-repeated advice about speaking to the media...(I apologize for this slightly off-base note but a *lot* of us are getting calls from the media about this worm thing, maybe this will be of some help.) 1. Don't get starry-eyed and speak to them if you're not in a position to speak to them. They will misquote you, screw it up etc and your boss will be sure s/he could have done better, is p-o'd that you got the interview and not him/her and you will feel betrayed (which is naive.) Remember, you will take the heat if they get it wrong, people will assume you were somehow unclear. 2. Don't take their questions *too* seriously, they're just poking around in the dark (particularly about technical matters.) Just say what you want to see yourself quoted as saying, don't worry if it doesn't exactly answer the question. Reporters are used to that and don't care as long as you're giving them stuff they can use in an article. IT'S NOT A PERSONAL CHAT. 3. If they get rude or press about an issue you don't want to talk about either smile and tell them the interview has ended or repeat what you want them to walk away with, politely. Don't fight or argue with them. 4. Don't be afraid to pause before answering a question and collecting your thoughts, even it seems awkward, they understand you are thinking and trying to give a good answer and know better than you do that what you are about to say might be very important. If you're the sort of person who can't separate the person from the issue (eg. worry that you're offending a reporter personally by not sticking to the question) you don't belong talking to the press. Same advice if you anger easily. Speaking to the press is a professional act, not a personal one. Refer them to someone else. Above all, be courteous and try to tell the truth (or don't say anything at all, or be absolutely sure you want to deal with the possible consequences.) -Barry Shein, ||Encore||
sam@VAX.FTP.COM (11/09/88)
>From: stev@vax.ftp.com >>it is bad enough that articles misquote someone, i would like to think >>that most of them dont know they are mucking it up, rather than not caring >>or trying to twist things to prove their point. >Although I agree with you in spirit I'd be happy to ship you a >transcript of CBS's coverage on their evening news report of the >Hacker's Convention a few weeks ago. I think when Stev said "articles" in the above quote, he was just referring to USENET/mailing list articles. (Stev, beat me about the head and neck if I'm misquoting you :-) This spawned the discussion of problems with the press. Before I read your (very disturbing) account of CBS's mangulation of the Hackers' Convention, I was already alarmed by the type and amount of press this whole Internet virus has gotten. In the front page and followup articles in the Boston Globe today (the Globe is a highly acclaimed, respectable paper for you non-Bostonians) portrayed this Morris character as a hackers' folk hero. It seemed to quote countless people praising him for his brilliance and ingenuity and suggesting that he did us all a favor by "exposing" this sendmail bug to the Internet at large, but quoted nobody who in any way, shape, or form said, "Oh great. What an asshole." No wonder there's this stereotype. Shelli Meyers (who works for but doesn't speak for) FTP Software, Inc.
ron@ron.rutgers.edu (Ron Natalie) (11/10/88)
By the way a very good article on the computer whiz which opens with the correct definition of the word hacker appeared around page A20 of Nov 7, 1988 New York Times. I've circulated this around various administrative types here at Rutgers. _Ron
wunder@SDE.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) (11/12/88)
2. Don't take their questions *too* seriously, they're just poking around in the dark (particularly about technical matters.) ... No kidding. Someone from the NY Times called HP, asking if we had a "neural" connection to CSNET. wunder
dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (11/13/88)
In article <8811081844.AA13028@vax.ftp.com> sam@VAX.FTP.COM writes: >In the front page and followup >articles in the Boston Globe today (the Globe is a highly acclaimed, >respectable paper for you non-Bostonians) portrayed this Morris character >as a hackers' folk hero. It seemed to quote countless people praising him >for his brilliance and ingenuity and suggesting that he did us all a favor >by "exposing" this sendmail bug to the Internet at large, but quoted nobody >who in any way, shape, or form said, "Oh great. What an asshole." Putting aside your description of the Globe as "respectable", I would like to think that the media's portrayal of Robert as "brilliant" and "ingenious" comes from the many interviews with people who know him and have worked with him, all of whom will gladly offer comments describing him as brilliant, his work ingenious, his manner uniformly helpful, and his intentions always free of malice. This particular event is certainly confusing to those of us who harbor such opinions, but it's also not enough to sweep them away. Sherri, I've known assholes, I've worked with assholes, and RTM is no asshole. -- Steve Dyer dyer@harvard.harvard.edu dyer@spdcc.COM aka {harvard,husc6,linus,ima,bbn,m2c,mipseast}!spdcc!dyer
stev@VAX.FTP.COM (11/17/88)
*>>From: stev@vax.ftp.com *>>>it is bad enough that articles misquote someone, i would like to think *>>>that most of them dont know they are mucking it up, rather than not caring *>>>or trying to twist things to prove their point. *> *>>Although I agree with you in spirit I'd be happy to ship you a *>>transcript of CBS's coverage on their evening news report of the *>>Hacker's Convention a few weeks ago. *> *>I think when Stev said "articles" in the above quote, he was just referring *>to USENET/mailing list articles. (Stev, beat me about the head and neck if *>I'm misquoting you :-) This spawned the discussion of problems with the *>press. * *I think not. The discussion was about stuff from postings getting *quoted in the press, specifically something by Van Jacobsen. If it *is then we've all lost the thread of this discussion. * -Barry Shein, ||Encore|| sorry, shelli, barry is correct. the question here is: should i tell reporter-type-people i am not interested when they want to talk to me about an article? is it better to try and fail to get the correct information across, or to just try and avoid it all together? stev knowles ftp software stev@ftp.com
sam@VAX.FTP.COM (11/19/88)
Steve Dyer writes: >Putting aside your description of the Globe as "respectable", I would >like to think that the media's portrayal of Robert as "brilliant" and >"ingenious" comes from the many interviews with people who know him and >have worked with him, all of whom will gladly offer comments describing >him as brilliant, his work ingenious, his manner uniformly helpful, >and his intentions always free of malice. This particular event is >certainly confusing to those of us who harbor such opinions, but it's >also not enough to sweep them away. > >Sherri, I've known assholes, I've worked with assholes, and RTM >is no asshole. (I won't pick on you about my name spelling since someone else already caught your error... :-) I think you're misunderstanding me. My posting was not meant to express my opinion as to the asshole-ish-ness of RTM. My personal opinion on the virus and what the consequences should be is irrelevant to the argument I was presenting. In this forum alone we have people expressing opinions on RTM ranging from marriage proposals to wanting him shot. My complaint against the Globe (or whatever news medium we want to pick on - most have been the same on this issue) is that they are *only* presenting the folk-hero image of RTM while there are lots and lots of people out there who would have some not-so-nice things to say about him. I think this is imbalanced and definitely contributes to the warped public image that not only hackers but all of us in the computer industry are suffering from. Shelli (that's with two l's and an i) Meyers ...who works for but doesn't speak for FTP Software, Inc.