taylor (01/18/83)
I am looking for a software engineering position. Any comments on the use of a placement service? Thanks in advance, mike taylor decvax!wivax!taylor wang institute
fox@bnrmtv.UUCP (Richard Fox) (11/12/85)
I believe that headhunters are a good idea for the people who need jobs and do not have access to all the news papers that may help that person land a job. By having a headhunter help, more jobs are brought to the persons attention and the person gets a better chance to match his/her skills to a company that needs that skill. Jow many of you people are working in an area that you do not like, or is there an area you prefer? Headhunters and other agencies might be able to help. When I am ready to leave my current job I might use the service if I find the market in the Silicon Valley dry. From the memiors of my mind.
oyster@uwmacc.UUCP (Vicious Oyster) (11/14/85)
In article <206@bnrmtv.UUCP> fox@bnrmtv.UUCP (Richard Fox) writes: >I believe that headhunters are a good idea for the people who need jobs... > Jow many of you people are >working in an area that you do not like, or is there an area you prefer? >Headhunters and other agencies might be able to help. When I am ready to leave >my current job I might use the service if I find the market in the Silicon >Valley dry. > This bears repeating... it is essential that you get a headhunter who cares about *your* needs, not her or his commission. A headhunter who pushed his way into my job search did the following: completely ignored my geographic specification, grossly misrepresented my skills (made me into a telecommun- ications expert when it's all I can do to remember my 'phone number), badgered me constantly at home and at work (but only *after* 3 months of no results, when I told him I was interviewing up here without his "help"), and continued to help me out by advising me that I could take a job that he might have found even *after* agreeing to work where I am now! He also came out with a lead with a leading employer with a great "human factors" rating (they're on the net, so I won't flatter them with mention by name) which I believe was fictitious, just so I would hold off on my decision to work here. My other encounter involved my (now) wife's search. She had two separate local agencies looking for a local job before and after she relocated to this area. One of them seemed sleezy, and said she'd only get state COBOL jobs; the other seemed to care more, but wasn't succesful. She got a good job with a small, growing medical systems company by calling all the Yellow Pages "computer" listings. Will I use headhunters again? Maybe, but I would be quick to tell them to buzz off if they started ignoring my wishes, and I would continue to look on my own, however much they disliked it.
radzy@calma.UUCP (Tim Radzykewycz) (11/15/85)
In article <1698@uwmacc.UUCP> oyster@uwmacc.UUCP(Vicious Oyster) writes: [proceedes to give several nasty examples] > Will I use headhunters again? Maybe, but I would be quick >to tell them to buzz off if they started ignoring my wishes, >and I would continue to look on my own, however much they >disliked it. One problem with this: If the headhunter sent your resume to a company you decide to work for within the last six months, your new employer will have to pay a commision on you irregardless of whether he actually arranged for anything. This is a problem for a couple of reasons: 1. The headhunter gets paid for not representing you. This is simply disgusting. 2. Many companies prefer hiring people who are *not* coming through a recruiter, so giving your resume to a "dastardly" headhunter may actually hurt your chances of getting a job even if you didn't make any arrangements with that company through the headhunter. I would recommend that you ask the headhunter for references from 1. Individuals who the headhunter placed -and- 2. Company representatives of some companies the headhunter has dealt with. If the headhunter objects to these, you probably don't want to do business with that headhunter anyway. -- Tim (radzy) Radzykewycz, The Incredible Radical Cabbage calma!radzy@ucbvax.ARPA {ucbvax,sun,csd-gould}!calma!radzy
jhenry@randvax.UUCP (Jim Henry) (11/19/85)
In California the actual legal language says that only the recruiter who made the placement can collect the fee. The only problem is that most companies and recruiters don't want to get involved in a squabble over who was responsible for the placement. Obviously headhunters work in a pretty gray area and have been guilty of plenty of abuses. On the other side I got my last two jobs through headhunters, and made my last hire through one and I don't think any of it would have happened without the headhunters. At one time I was contacted by the California state agency that regulates employment agencies so I know there are some people who really do try to keep a eye on these folks. Their concern at the time they contacted me was making sure that employers knew their rights in dealing with employment agencies. Since I think we all agree that there are plenty of hazards in dealing with a headhunter as an employee but that it is sometimes necessary given the current mechanism of the job market, perhaps we should discuss what types of safeguards we need. If we can come up with something workable there may be an attentive audience amongst the state regulators. To start the ball rolling I submit the following ideas: Recruiters should not be able to reveal your name to anyone without written consent from you which explicitly states to whom your identity may be revealed. Recruiters should not be able to present your resume to anyone without your consent and any resume presented shall have your original signature on it. A signed resume may not be altered in any way. Recruiters shall not present a candidates unless they have a specific written job order from the company suitable for the candidate. The candidate shall have the right to see a copy of the signed job order before being presented but the identity of the employer may be hidden. An administrative board, similar to the board which resolves matters involving employee complaints, shall be available to resolve complaints by employment candidates.
mash@mips.UUCP (John Mashey) (11/19/85)
Tim (radzy) Radzykewycz writes: > One problem with this: > If the headhunter sent your resume to a company you decide > to work for within the last six months, your new employer will > have to pay a commision on you irregardless of whether he actually > arranged for anything. This is a problem for a couple of reasons: > 2. Many companies prefer hiring people who are *not* > coming through a recruiter, so giving your resume > to a "dastardly" headhunter may actually hurt your > chances of getting a job ... As a hiring manager, I second this 100%. I've worked with good recruiters were useful and worth every penny; I've run into the other kind. I still prefer to hire most people without. Some more advice: a) After checking out a recruiter, get in writing statement that they won't send resume to anybody without checking with you first. b) If you are going to be contacting some companies on your own, tell them so [out of fairness; don't waste their time]. c) If they find a match for you that you wouldn't have [as hirer or hiree], they've earned their money. d) If you let them make a contact that you would have also, you DEFINITELY hurt your chances for being hired, especially if there's a relocation involved. If somebody walks on water, paying a recruiting fee hasn't bothered me. More than once I've ended up not hiring people (or seeing this happen) where it was "if we weren't paying a fee, we'd hire this person, but they aren't so much better than others we're seeing that we can't afford to wait." Money is money, whether it's spent on fees or equipment. If I spend $10K on a fee, that's a SUN-3 I didn't buy, or a bunch of conference trips nobody got to take. -- -john mashey UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl!mips!mash DDD: 415-960-1200 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 1330 Charleston Rd, Mtn View, CA 94043
jans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) (11/19/85)
In article <61@calma.UUCP> radzy@calma.UUCP (Tim Radzykewycz) writes: >In article <1698@uwmacc.UUCP> oyster@uwmacc.UUCP(Vicious Oyster) writes: >> Will I use headhunters again? Maybe, but I would be quick to tell them >>to buzz off if they started ignoring my wishes, and I would continue to look >>on my own, however much they disliked it. > >One problem with this: > If the headhunter sent your resume to a company you decide to work for >within the last six months, your new employer will have to pay a commision on >you irregardless of whether he actually arranged for anything. If you deal exclusively with one headhunter, there is nothing to worry about. If you are just "browsing the market", stay away from headhunters so you can have the freedom to speak to whomever you wish -- most of these kind of jobs are passed word-of-mouth anyway. If, however, you are actively seeking a new job, I would suggest that you cover all the ground you can several weeks before contacting any headhunter. When you do contact headhunters, enclose a list of all the direct contacts you have made. This saves embarrassment for all, and if an unscrupulous headhunter decides to contact one of your direct contacts, you have adequate documentation to show that you got there first. Good headhunters don't want to approach companies you have already contacted. -- :::::: Artificial Intelligence Machines --- Smalltalk Project :::::: :::::: Jan Steinman Box 1000, MS 61-405 (w)503/685-2956 :::::: :::::: tektronix!tekecs!jans Wilsonville, OR 97070 (h)503/657-7703 ::::::
seifert@hammer.UUCP (Snoopy) (11/20/85)
In article <61@calma.UUCP> radzy@calma.UUCP (Tim Radzykewycz) writes: > If the headhunter sent your resume to a company you decide >to work for within the last six months, your new employer will >have to pay a commision on you irregardless of whether he actually >arranged for anything. Seems like this would depend on whether the headhunter had an agreement to this effect with the company beforehand or not. Like if a company sends you unordered merchandise, you can keep it and don't owe them anything. Otherwise, I could make up fake resume's for everyone in the phone_book/USENIX_proceedings/whatever, and mail them to every company I could find every six monthes and rake in lots of commisions. Snoopy (ECS Ronin #901) tektronix!tekecs!doghouse.TEK!snoopy
shawn@mit-eddie.UUCP (Shawn McKay) (12/25/85)
If the net permits Mrs Dee to use it to make money, I will also use it to make money. I will, without any doubt, post as many 'for sale' items, and 'general intrest' items as it can stomach. I don't feel the net is the place for this type of thing, but if that's what people want, I am happy to help. -- Shawn Uucp: mit-eddie!shawn Arpa: Shawn at Mit-Mc