hans@ditmela.oz (Hans Eriksson) (06/26/89)
I beleive I can claim the (current) world record for the furthest telnet login: Melbourne -> Stockholm. This weekend the IP-link between Hawaii and Australia (Melbourne Uni) finally came up. A couple of minutes ago I telnetted to my old host back home (re.sics.se) and read my news. Sloooow, but nevertheless working. According to my MacII the distance is around 15,600 km. But that is via Asia. Via America I guess it around 22,000 km. /hans P.S. On a "silent" weekend, I might try a nfs mount... -- Hans Eriksson (hans@ditmela.oz.au) CSIRO/DIT, 55 Barry Street, Carlton, Victoria 3053, Australia (we are GMT+10) Tel: +61 3 347-8644 Fax: +61 3 347-8987 Home: +61 3 534-5188 On a years leave from Swedish Institute of Computer Science (hans@sics.se)
Mills@UDEL.EDU (06/28/89)
Hans, As some might say, that's great DX. Might I interest you in coming up network time (NTP) on those antipodal hosts and claim the DX award for time synchronization. Next, you get to try the Worked All Clocks award. The more serious agenda here is to measure the delays and dispersions on those paths over a significant interval and compare with similar data I have here on the US - Norway path. Dave
brianw@hpausla.HP.COM (Brian Wallis) (06/29/89)
Ummm... Hate to say it, but we do it just about every day. HP Australian Software Operation (ASO) has an internet connection to HP's closed subnet (and has had for about a year) which is regularly used for telnet, ftp, etc to HP sites in the US, UK and Germany to name the more common ones.
CERF@A.ISI.EDU (06/29/89)
Now, can you telnet back again to your own host - and use some source routing to force the connection truly around the world... Vint Cerf.
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (06/29/89)
In article <8906281206.aa05174@huey.udel.edu> Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: > Hans, > > ... Next, you get to try the Worked All Clocks > award... Actually the real challange is to get those silly shuttle control computers on the internet. Columbia.NASA.gov anyone? They could even run rrn to keep the astronauts from getting bored during countdowns! 8-) -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
smb@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Steven M. Bellovin) (06/29/89)
A long time ago, when the world was young and research sites still had guest accounts, the host I was supposed to be using via a TAC was down. Bored, I scanned the manuals, and learned of a guest account on a machine in London. I connected to it, and found a news item advertising a guest account on a system in D.C. Of course, I couldn't resist that, either. So every character I typed went from North Carolina, via satellite to London, thence to D.C. via another satellite hop. The echo, and presumably the acknowedgements, went via the same twisty path. Not what one would call a responsive system...
patterso@hardees.rutgers.edu (Ross Patterson) (06/30/89)
Dave, Does this mean the NIC will now accept applications for a Worked All Continents certificate? How about Worked All Networks? Worked All Hosts (real tough)?
wunder@SDE.HP.COM (Walter Underwood) (06/30/89)
Brian has a point. Australia to Singapore (wrong way) over the HP Internet is probably the reigning DX. Minimum round trip time seems to be about 2 seconds (adding together the ping time from California to each location). On a different topic, we seem to have some INTERESTING routing to Australia. Check out this ping report: 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=3. time=7994. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=8. time=3174. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=7. time=4242. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=6. time=6150. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=11. time=1214. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=5. time=7430. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=10. time=2453. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=9. time=3838. ms 64 bytes from 0x0f102101: icmp_seq=12. time=1265. ms wunder
karn@jupiter (Phil R. Karn) (06/30/89)
>Actually the real challange is to get those silly shuttle control >computers on the internet. Columbia.NASA.gov anyone? They could >even run rrn to keep the astronauts from getting bored during >countdowns! 8-) You think you're joking, right? This is actually not so unlikely. There is at least one "ham in space" operation scheduled for an upcoming Shuttle mission where astronaut/astronomer Ron Parise, WA4SIR, will carry an amateur packet radio station with him. It is entirely possible (though I haven't actually proposed it) that he could operate TCP/IP from space -- after all, they do have GRID computers that look like PCs on the inside, and the KA9Q code will run just fine on them. The longer things slide in the shuttle mission schedules, the easier it'll be to do this sort of stuff as the necessary hardware becomes more and more widespread. The fun part would be doing the IP redirects as the shuttle moves from one ground station gateway to the next... Phil
hans@ditmela.oz (Hans Eriksson) (06/30/89)
In article <8906281206.aa05174@huey.udel.edu> Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: > As some might say, that's great DX. Might I interest you in coming up > network time (NTP) on those antipodal hosts and claim the DX award > for time synchronization. Next, you get to try the Worked All Clocks > award. Well, there aren't that many world records available, so I'd had to try that way to fame :-) > The more serious agenda here is to measure the delays and > dispersions on those paths over a significant interval and compare with > similar data I have here on the US - Norway path. Sure, could you send me an extract of your data so I known what to measure and in what form. Better make sure that the data really are comparable. /hans -- Hans Eriksson (hans@ditmela.oz.au) CSIRO/DIT, 55 Barry Street, Carlton, Victoria 3053, Australia (we are GMT+10) Tel: +61 3 347-8644 Fax: +61 3 347-8987 Home: +61 3 534-5188 On a years leave from Swedish Institute of Computer Science (hans@sics.se)
hans@ditmela.oz (Hans Eriksson) (06/30/89)
In article <2830002@hpausla.HP.COM> brianw@hpausla.HP.COM (Brian Wallis) writes: > > Hate to say it, but we do it just about every day. HP Australian > Software Operation (ASO) has an internet connection to HP's closed > subnet (and has had for about a year) which is regularly used for > telnet, ftp, etc to HP sites in the US, UK and Germany to name the > more common ones. Yeah, I hate you saying that too ;-) Anyway, you are commersial, I'm just a poor lonely researcher in the outskirts of the world (sorry, my dear Australians! I love the country anyway). But I'd guess I have to modify my claim: World record for longest telnet via the Internet: Melbourne -> Stockholm via the western hemisphere (~ 22,000km). /hans -- Hans Eriksson (hans@ditmela.oz.au) CSIRO/DIT, 55 Barry Street, Carlton, Victoria 3053, Australia (we are GMT+10) Tel: +61 3 347-8644 Fax: +61 3 347-8987 Home: +61 3 534-5188 On a years leave from Swedish Institute of Computer Science (hans@sics.se)
hans@ditmela.oz (Hans Eriksson) (06/30/89)
In article <[A.ISI.EDU]29-Jun-89.00:29:13.CERF> CERF@A.ISI.EDU writes: > Now, > > can you telnet back again to your own host - and use > some source routing to force the connection truly around > the world... There is no IP-links going via the eastern hemishpere (yet). Of course there maybe someone running IP over X.25 (I have thought about doing that myself). What I have done is calling SICS (Stockholm) via X.25 and then telnet to Australia. I guess that Australia PTT takes the shortest path to Sweden which should be via the easter hemisphere, and then I completed the circumnavigation via the IP-links Scandinavia->US->Australia. /hans p.s. I wonder when one can go around the world in just 80 milliseconds... -- Hans Eriksson (hans@ditmela.oz.au) CSIRO/DIT, 55 Barry Street, Carlton, Victoria 3053, Australia (we are GMT+10) Tel: +61 3 347-8644 Fax: +61 3 347-8987 Home: +61 3 534-5188 On a years leave from Swedish Institute of Computer Science (hans@sics.se)
kre@cs.mu.oz.au (Robert Elz) (06/30/89)
In article <8906281206.aa05174@huey.udel.edu>, Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: > Might I interest you in coming up network time (NTP) on those antipodal > hosts and claim the DX award for time synchronization. We've done that already ... in fact, that one of the first things we got going (there were some people here sick of clocks that never keep quite the right time - keeping them in sync with each other was fine, but only of marginal interest when that meant they all showed the wrong time). Actual use was one host here slaved off one in Hawaii, which was slaved off one somewhere on the mainland, and the rest of the net here slved off the privileged one. We have (at the minute) no way to accurately measure any error in the absolute time, but it was certainly too small to detect comparing (manually) the signals from the phone company and the time on the systems here. We hope to be able to get access to Australia's standard time clock (caesium beam thing, which is keep in sync with Paris) sometime in the near forseeable future, then we'll be able to tell if you're really sending us the true time, or just something close... Unfortunately, the leased line carriers have taken the circuit away to try and get the error rate to something close to acceptable, so we're back to looking at our watches again. kre ps: If Hans really wanted to calculate how far his bits really went going to Sweden and back he'd want to include the distance of 3 satellite hops that I know about between here and there (perhaps more). With 3 of those the total distance is something pretty enormous, and the delays agree with it... (I saw rtt's from ping of about 10 seconds to sics.se last weekend, with a drop rate about 75%).
Makey@LOGICON.ARPA (Jeff Makey) (07/01/89)
In article <5896@ditmela.oz> hans@ditmela.oz.au (Hans Eriksson) writes: >I wonder when one can go around the world in just 80 milliseconds... The radius of the Earth is about 4000 miles, which gives a circumference of about 25000 miles. The speed of light is about 186000 miles per second, so the lower bound for going around the world is 25000/186000 == 0.13 seconds or so. :: Jeff Makey Department of Tautological Pleonasms and Superfluous Redundancies Department Disclaimer: Logicon doesn't even know we're running news. Internet: Makey@LOGICON.ARPA UUCP: {nosc,ucsd}!logicon.arpa!Makey
J.Crowcroft@CS.UCL.AC.UK (Jon Crowcroft) (07/03/89)
>The radius of the Earth is about 4000 miles, which gives a >circumference of about 25000 miles. The speed of light is about >186000 miles per second, so the lower bound for going around the world >is 25000/186000 == 0.13 seconds or so. Jeff why do we have to go round - right frequency signalling (say neutrino's) and we could go thru - this gives 4000/186000 = .021 seconds, or 21 msecs :-) jon
J.Crowcroft@CS.UCL.AC.UK (Jon Crowcroft) (07/03/89)
>In article <8906281206.aa05174@huey.udel.edu>, Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: >> Might I interest you in coming up network time (NTP) on those antipodal >> hosts and claim the DX award for time synchronization. >We've done that already ... in fact, that one of the first things we >got going (there were some people here sick of clocks that never keep >quite the right time - keeping them in sync with each other was fine, >but only of marginal interest when that meant they all showed the wrong time). want to try peering with UCL - we will have a rugby clock up in the next couple of weeks ... b.t.w we used to have the longest bridge between two LANs - we did protocol conversion in an LSI to get from BSP to TCP, but becuase of the lack of sensible loopback in the LSI, we bounced the bits off a satellite - the rings concerned were collocated in the basement here - to ftp from 2 pdp 11/44s in the same room, the fiels had to go 36000km... jon
roy@phri.UUCP (Roy Smith) (07/04/89)
In article <8907010207.aa04823@huey.udel.edu> Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: > Unless you tinker with the velocity of light, you are you can't wind around > the world in less than 141 milliseconds Depends on whether you constrain yourself to great circle routes or not. You should be able to knock the 141 ms down by a factor of pi if you go the more direct route. Of course, you might get bogged down in red tape arranging the right-of-ways. :-) -- Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 {allegra,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy -or- roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu "The connector is the network"
Mills@UDEL.EDU (07/06/89)
Roy, Well, the Navy claims that a few megawatts at a couple kiloHertz and a few hundred kilometers of buried copper can penetrate down to submarine operating depths. Before dimming the lights and frying people with more megawatts and kilometers, not to mention even lower data rates, you might consider digging a tunnel clean through the Earth. Problem with that is it only works between selected points. A richly connected system would require creation of a new asteriod belt to hold the tunnel tailings, but might revolutionize the intercontinental transportation industry. Dave
Mills@UDEL.EDU (07/06/89)
Jon, I love it. Old radio hackers perservere and prosper, even if Morse may be dying. Can you provide address for your Rugby chimer? I would dearly like to hunt for systematic offset across the Atlantic and maybe prize out some telco silliness. I once personally observed a massive route restoral for one of the TATs via INTELSAT apparently without prior warning. Dave
paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell) (07/10/89)
In article <8907052309.aa07519@huey.udel.edu> Mills@UDEL.EDU writes: >I love it. Old radio hackers perservere and prosper, even if Morse may >be dying. Can you provide address for your Rugby chimer? I would dearly Which brings up a whole new concept in "'World's record furthest Telnet": Moon Bounce Paul (ex ZL4TFW) -- Paul Campbell UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul AppleLink: D3213 "Free Market": n. (colloq.) a primitive fertility goddess worshipped by an obscure cult in the late 20th C. It's chief priest 'Dow Jones' was eventually lynched by an enraged populace during an economic downturn (early 21st C).
Mills@UDEL.EDU (08/08/89)
Hans, Unless you tinker with the velocity of light, you are you can't wind around the world in less than 141 milliseconds, and considerably more if you do it in real cables or satellites. If you are managing 22K miles in 80 ms, stop right there and file a "Believe It or Not" claim. Dave
stjohns@BEAST.DDN.MIL (Mike St. Johns) (08/09/89)
Actually, there is an IP link via the eastern hemisphere. Its a MILNET sattelite shot via a bird over the indian ocean. Mike
hans@ditmela.oz (Hans Eriksson) (08/14/89)
In article <8906302219.AA12582@beast.ddn.mil> stjohns@BEAST.DDN.MIL (Mike St. Johns) writes: > Actually, there is an IP link via the eastern hemisphere. Its a > MILNET sattelite shot via a bird over the indian ocean. Aah, could you give me some adress info so I can get onto it ;-) /hans -- Hans Eriksson (hans@ditmela.oz.au) CSIRO/DIT, 55 Barry Street, Carlton, Victoria 3053, Australia (we are GMT+10) Tel: +61 3 347-8644 Fax: +61 3 347-8987 Home: +61 3 534-5188 On a years leave from Swedish Institute of Computer Science (hans@sics.se)
lance@belltec.UUCP (Lance Norskog) (08/16/89)
In article <8906302219.AA12582@beast.ddn.mil>, stjohns@BEAST.DDN.MIL (Mike St. Johns) writes: > Actually, there is an IP link via the eastern hemisphere. Its a > MILNET sattelite shot via a bird over the indian ocean. Does the secret link between nsavax and kremvax go via the Atlantic or the Pacific or the North Pole? Or is it a carrier wave atop Tesla crust wave generators? Inquiring minds want to know! Lance Norskog Streamlined Networks
stjohns@BEAST.DDN.MIL (Mike St. Johns) (08/16/89)
Sheesh.... Let me rephrase -- the link I was referring to is a trunk circuit between two MILNET Nodes. As the MILNET routing is transparent to the user, you'd find it difficult to guarantee that your transmission is going via that link. (Although, using some of the stuff Dave Mills has done, you could probably detect the fact that you are using this satellite shot). Mike