tlr@umcp-cs.UUCP (Terry L. Ridder) (01/04/86)
I am posting this in response to several pieces of mail that I have received in response to my last posting about MDEE and her postings. I did not say in any of my postings that I did not like people in the AI field or did not like AI. I have worked in the AI field, I have worked with ART, KEE, S1, M1, and others. I have three years of programming in LISP. Some of my favorite computers are LISP machines. What I did say in my posting was that I feel that MDEE is using the net in fashion that it is not meant to be used. She is using the net to *PROFIT* from. She is avoiding expenses that she should be paying for. How many people out in net land want Source EDP on the net? How about all the other headhunters, who could rightly claim that since MDEE did it we can to. Just because MDEE has a computer, so do the other headhunters, that does not give her the *right* to *freeload* on the net, and by doing so *risk* the net and its future. Signed Terry L. Ridder (Please respond to the iiasavax address during the month of Jan) -- Terry L. Ridder 14728 4th St. #301 Laurel, Maryland 20707 UUCP: seismo!mimsy.umd.edu!tlr OR seismo!neurad!terry UUCP: seismo!mcvax!iiasavax!tlr UUCP: seismo!(mimsy.umd.edu|neurad)!bilbo!(root|tlr) ARPA: tlr@maryland PHONE: 301-490-2248 (home)
mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (01/05/86)
The primary critereon for making this decision (which seems to be "should headhunters be allowed to post job openings to the net?") should be whether such postings are primarily of benefit to the net, or to the poster. If the net derives significant benefit from the posting, then the fact that it's commercial use by the headhunter shouldn't matter. From where I sit, I suspect that the answer is that a single posting such as we just saw doesn't hurt anything, and there were several people who seemed interested (at least generically.) On the other hand, if every headhunter in the world started posting all their openings, I suspect we'd have a problem. Certainly there's a problem if the volume or visibility becomes significant. (In addition to the cost in phone bills, CPU time, disk space, and person time to send around all the postings, commercial companies would be concerned about such postings being run under the noses of their employees.) I propose that we adopt the following policy: Postings for job openings, items for sale, and the like, by third parties will be allowed, as long as the total volume does not exceed some threshold. (One article per day, netwide, might be one possibility for the threshold.) When the average volume over a one-month period exceeds this threshold, the privilege is cancelled, and no more third party postings at all will be permitted. Mark Horton
david@ukma.UUCP (David Herron, NPR Lover) (01/05/86)
In article <1731@cbosgd.UUCP> mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) writes: > ... >Postings for job openings, items for sale, and the like, by third >parties will be allowed, as long as the total volume does not exceed >some threshold. (One article per day, netwide, might be one possibility >for the threshold.) When the average volume over a one-month period >exceeds this threshold, the privilege is cancelled, and no more third >party postings at all will be permitted. > > Mark Horton I second the motion, all in favor say AYE! -- David Herron, cbosgd!ukma!david, david@UKMA.BITNET, soon, david@uky.csnet. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
tp@ndm20 (01/10/86)
> ... >Postings for job openings, items for sale, and the like, by third >parties will be allowed, as long as the total volume does not exceed >some threshold. (One article per day, netwide, might be one possibility >for the threshold.) When the average volume over a one-month period >exceeds this threshold, the privilege is cancelled, and no more third >party postings at all will be permitted. > > Mark Horton And then we come back to "How do you enforce this?" I don't see that you can. If mdee's feed doesn't cut her off, what can you do? There is no authority here. You can promote a policy and badger people into keeping it. That is how the net currently does things. But if you grant a privilege, you set a precedent. You won't be able to cancel it. I suggest if we are to adopt guidelines, they must be adopted from the start in a form we believe to be sufficient for the future. As such, I'd go back to the criteria for net.announce in coming up with such a guideline: the message should be of more value to the net than the poster (someone else just made this point, but nobody seemed to notice). mdee's message seems to me to violate this, as it doesn't give enough info for a prospective job candidate to evaluate the position. Thus it is a lure to get people on the phone. She cannot of course post the name of the company, as she'd lose her commission (who'd be fool enough to call her if they could go direct to the company?), but she should post more details (location, nature of work, etc.) so that people could make an intelligent decision on whether they were interested. The article as posted is merely an ad, but it could have been posted in a form that would have been perfectly valid for this newsgroup. The form of her message leads me to wonder whether this job exists (she could just be trying to get a line on people of a specified set of qualifications) or even if it does, if it was purposely stated in such a way as to draw an excess number of inquiries. If such was the intent, it seems obvious to me that this is misuse of the net. If the item were more informative, it would leave less room for such interpretations of its intent.
slf@panda.UUCP (Scott Fisher) (01/16/86)
In article <2691@umcp-cs.UUCP> tlr@umcp-cs.UUCP (Terry L. Ridder) writes: > >What I did say in my posting was that I feel that MDEE is using the >net in fashion that it is not meant to be used. She is using the net >to *PROFIT* from. She is avoiding expenses that she should be paying >for. How many people out in net land want Source EDP on the net? >How about all the other headhunters, who could rightly claim that >since MDEE did it we can to. Just because MDEE has a computer, so do >the other headhunters, that does not give her the *right* to *freeload* >on the net, and by doing so *risk* the net and its future. > >Signed >Terry L. Ridder >PHONE: 301-490-2248 (home) I don't think MDEE is trying to *avoid* paying for anything, just using the most logical medium to reach the type of people who are interested in finding the type of job she has. I read this group to find out what qualifications employers are looking for so that I can study the proper courses in school to make myself marketable. In my opinion, she is doing much more for the net than people who wine about "using the net in a fashion that it is not ment to be used". Your self-rightous attitude is more of a *risk* to the net than MDEE's postings. [decvax,linus,wjh12,mit-eddie,cbosgd,masscomp]!genrad!teddy!slf