[comp.protocols.tcp-ip] About RFCs in Postscript and Ascii

postel@VENERA.ISI.EDU (02/03/90)

Hi:

RFCs have been traditionally published in ASCII text.

The IAB has decided that RFCs may be published in PostScript.  This
decision is motivated by the desire to include diagrams, drawings, and
such in RFCs.  It also allows authors that normally work with document
production tools that produce PostScript output to use their normal
tools.  PostScript documents (on paper, so far) are visually more
appealing and have improved readability.

PostScript was chosen for the fancy form of RFC publication over other
possible systems (e.g., impress, interpress, oda) because of the
perceived wide spread availability of PostScript capable printers.

It has been pointed out that many RFC users read the documents online
and use various text oriented tools (e.g., emacs, grep) to search
them.  Often, brief excerpts from RFCs are included in e-mail.  These
practices are not yet practical with PostScript files.

Therefore, the IAB has also decided that when ever an RFC is published
in PostScript a secondary version of that RFC is to be made available
in ASCII text.  This secondary version may be missing some elements of
the primary version (e.g., diagrams), and be formatted differently.

Work is in progress to provide the secondary versions of the
PostScript RFCs already published.

It has also been pointed out that PostScript is less standard that has
been assumed and that several of the document production systems that
claim to produce PostScript actually produce nonstandard results.

It may be necessary to identify a set of document production systems
authorized for use in production of PostScript RFCs, based on the
reasonableness of the output files they generate.


--jon.  (The RFC Editor)

skl@van-bc.UUCP (Samuel Lam) (02/03/90)

In article <9002022237.AA21479@bel.isi.edu>, postel@VENERA.ISI.EDU wrote:
>... the IAB has also decided that when ever an RFC is published
>in PostScript a secondary version of that RFC is to be made available
>in ASCII text.

Thank you very much!!!  This decision is appreciated.

-- 
Internet: <skl@wimsey.bc.ca>	UUCP: {van-bc,ubc-cs,uunet}!wimsey.bc.ca!skl

haverty@BBN.COM (Jack Haverty) (02/04/90)

Some documents will be very difficult to understand with only ascii
content, e.g., documents with diagrams, graphs, and other pictorial
information.

Request for clarification: is the intent of this policy to create ascii
images of RFCs which are complete and understandable in isolation, or
to create ascii versions of RFCs for ease of computer searching, extraction
of text, and the like?

Jack

kasten@interlan.interlan.COM (Frank Kastenholz) (02/05/90)

I think that this is an excellent solution to the Postscript vs Ascii
debate.

My only concern is that there may be useful information that is lost in going
from Postscript to ASCII. For example, if the TCP RFC were originally done in
Postscript and 'ported' to ASCII, the TCP header and state transition diagrams
could be lost. Will any effort be made to preserve these diagrams?

Also, given the possible information loss, which version of the RFC will be
the 'official' one?

As an aside - maybe diagrams could be made available via "FAX over TCP"?
I seem to recall that there was a discussion thread on the TCP/FAX topic
on the TCP-IP list within the past 2 or 3 months so there is some
interest in the general subject.

Cheers
Frank Kastenholz
Racal Interlan

ihm@NRC.COM (Ian H. Merritt) (02/06/90)

haverty@BBN.COM (Jack Haverty) says:
>Some documents will be very difficult to understand with only ascii
>content, e.g., documents with diagrams, graphs, and other pictorial
>information.
>
>Request for clarification: is the intent of this policy to create ascii
>images of RFCs which are complete and understandable in isolation, or
>to create ascii versions of RFCs for ease of computer searching, extraction
>of text, and the like?
>
>Jack

Jack, I have access to a PostScript printer.  It is tough to grep
through a paper copy of an RFC, no matter how 'pretty' it may be.  The
PostScript format files are of little use in this regard as well.

For my purposes and per many of the other comments I read in the
initial flurry of complaints spawned by the first few PostScript-only
RFC's, it is this (computer searching as you suggest in your question)
that is most important about plaintext.  Once the RFC has been
mechanically identified, we can get a paper copy.

Also, it is useful to be able to include quotes from the RFC in E-mail
without having to type them in from a paper copy (extraction, as you
also suggest in your question).  Retyping, after all would somewhat
defeat the purpose of this marvelous electronic communication system
we all know and love.

	-i

Ps: Thank you Jon Postel.

-- 
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InterNet:	ihm@NRC.COM

haverty@BBN.COM (Jack Haverty) (02/13/90)

Re: Postscript/ascii RFCs

Sorry for the gap in this "conversation" - I spent a week at COMNET
electronically incommunicado in a sea of products from the
communications industry!

Vint clarified the intent of the policy for me - to provide machine-processable
versions of all RFCs for ease of searching, etc.  I fully support that notion;
after all, we're supposed to be applying computers and communications to 
getting work done in a better way than manual brute-force techniques.

At the risk of opening yet another round.....

Speaking of brute force, perhaps interesting documents on the Internet
should be made available in SEARCHABLE format, as the next obvious step
beyond ascii and FTP.  By this I mean supplementing the "file servers"
which are sprinkled throughout the system with database servers in which
the documents are stored, and which could be queried through some kind
of language (SQL, grep, whatever). Rather than forcing everyone to FTP
all of the files to all of their local computers, and search them there,
we could allow people to send queries to the server machine(s) to find
the identity of relevant documents which could then be transferred.

This idea is of course hardly new - the "DataComputer" on the Arpanet in
1975 or so provided such a capability, and services such as IQUEST accessible
through networks such as CompuServe provide similar capabilities for the more
formal publications.

Perhaps such a capability should now be on the Internet?  Is anyone thinking or
working on this?  Maybe it already exists and I'm just not aware of it?

Jack