[comp.protocols.tcp-ip] CMOT Implementations

tkostan@TRWIND.TRW.COM (Tyson Kostan) (03/17/90)

I can give you a DoD view on the subject.  I work for TRW and we are the 
supplier of TCP/IP componants to the Air Force under the ULANA (Unified
Local Area Network Architecture) contract -- a requirements contract which
will soon spread across all of the DoD.  The Air Force has decided (or maybe
better put, not decided) that they will do both.  Under our contract, we will
have to provide a manager which can speak both CMOT and SNMP.  Our initial
feeling on this subject was that this requirement came about due to 3COM's
support of CMOT and not SNMP.  I'm not too sure about this view at this time.

3COM claimed that it would have CMOT agents for all of its devices, but I'm
not sure how far they have come with that.  Now they are touting SNMP.

DEC claims to be an ISO shop, and will be providing managers which support
both CMOT and SNMP capabilities.

I was reciently at COM-Net '90, and I didnt see any support for CMOT, where
support for SNMP was everywhere, either in the form of managers, agents or
proxy devices.

In my opinion, ever since CMOT and SNMP went their own seperate ways (when the
MIB split), SNMP has completely taken center stage, and bumped CMOT to the 
shadows.  Only time will tell...

sean@dsl.pitt.edu (Sean McLinden) (03/17/90)

In article <9003170417.AA26725@psi.com> schoff@PSI.COM ("Martin Lee Schoffstall") writes:
>
>Now the question is will SNMP knock out CMIP itself in the area of NMS/agent
>management within the OSI stack.

I sincerely hope not. SNMP is probably adequate for the task of network
management of networks and the full implementation of CMIP is, most likely,
overkill for what are basic network management tasks, but when you start
talking about the management of network objects that represent the
state of the real world (I mean, the computers are there to support
more than their network connections!) is when you see the real power
of a protocol like CMIP.

At the risk of sounding heretical, my personal opinion is that an
implementation of CMOT would make TCP/IP sufficiently robust as to
make it an attractive competitor to OSI (at least until we run
out of addresses). To put this another way, the real appeal of
OSI (and there are a lot of unappealing things about it), is not
the market hype but what is the OSI concept of information as it
exists in communities (an idea retrofitted to TCP/IP with such tools
as XDR, RPC, Threads...). With a generalized interface to what is
network information a la CM{IP,OT} you have a pretty powerful system
which has the advantage of being widely available across multiple
architectures. Until full implementations of the OSI stack
become widely available CMOT would extend the functionality of TCP/IP
as an OSI prototyping tool for, at least, the next few years, allowing
for the applications to be developed in parallel with the network.

Sean McLinden
Decision Systems Laboratory
University of Pittsburgh

mrose@CHEETAH.NYSER.NET (Marshall Rose) (03/20/90)

Well, I haven't seen the message you have replied to, but I guess I
should speak up.  If, for the moment, we forget the rather tainted
history of CMIP in the Internet, the politics, failures, and so on,
the issue still boils down to one of technical credibility.

If you start comparing OSI application services and protocols (MHS, DS,
FTAM, VT, CMIP), you see that the skill set is all over the board.
Things like message handling and directory, whilst ambitious, work
because they are basically solid protocols well-suited for a particular
domain.  In those two cases, I think the argument of "let's get it fully
implemented and it will work out".  In the case of FTAM and VT, their
scope of focus is simply too large to be workable, e.g., the most charitable
thing I've heard said about FTAM is that "it's both a dessert topping
and a floor wax".  The dessert topping part refers to record access (NFS-like)
features and the floor wax part refers to bulk transfer (FTP-like)
features. 

SNMP works well at network management because it is well-suited towards
the task.  When you need to cast lightning bolts, you conduct it through gold
(SNMP) not paper (CMIP).  This is akin to saying that SNMP is a network
management protocol, and *perhaps* CMIP is a system management protocol,
though I have no confidence in the latter portion since all the CMIP
proponents I cross swords with keep talking about doing both, so they
have fallen into the dessert topping/floor wax trap.  As you might
guess, anything that can be used as a floor wax probably doesn't taste
too good, and anything that can be used as a dessert topping probably
doesn't clean too well.  But, that's CMIP for you.

/mtr