kwang@infmx.UUCP (Kwang Sung) (06/12/90)
>From: bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) wrote: >Sender: news@MorningStar.COM (USENET Administrator) >Organization: Morning Star Technologies Hi... Upon Bob's request, I would like to take a normal procedure in order to create a new newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration" so that nobody can bother existing newsgroup either "comp.protocols.iso" or "comp.protocols. tcp-ip" any more. >if its regular readers were calling for help in the form of another, >more focused group and list (they aren't), then the group should be >called comp.protocols.iso.migration, in order to fit in with the >established naming structure. >I'd suggest you follow the common newsgroup creation procedure: set up >a mailing list, broadcast its existence to all appropriate, interested >forums (e.g. the existing ISO forums), and invite all interested >parties to join. When the traffic becomes too heavy for members' >mailboxes, you'll have a particularly strong case to call for a new >newsgroup. At that time, ask someone to help you set up a gateway >between your iso-migration list and the new c.p.i.m newsgroup. And >you have my permission, in advance, to say "I told you so" :-) >You have asked the folks there whether they're interested in >segmenting their discussions. From their responses, I see neither the >need or the mandate. First of all, this new newsgroup can be grouped by anybody who is interested in migration/transition to OSI. You may discuss any technical or non-technical issues on any protocols/strategies which might be helpful to migrate/transit to OSI world. Here are about 40 persons who responded to my postings so far. I would like to vote whether we need to create such a new newsgroup. Please vote, and e-mail either me or post temporarily at "comp.protocols.iso", NOT at "comp.protocols.tcp-ip". After I collect those info, I will re-post the result at both "comp.protocols.iso" and "comp.protocols.tcp-ip". Here is the mailing list, and if you are interested in joining this new newsgroup, please vote. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) goldstein@carafe.enet.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) oberman@rogue.llnl.gov cperry@STARBASE.MITRE.ORG (Chris Perry) Amit Parghi <uunet!watmath!watcgl.waterloo.edu!aparghi> Bill Streilein <nsc!wellfleet.com!bstreile> CLIFF@UCBCMSA (Cliff Frost {415} 642-5360) uunet!elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov!david (David Robinson) dennis@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Dennis Ferguson) Stef@NRTC.NORTHROP.COM (Einar Stefferud) uunet!proteon.com!gmalkin (Gary Scott Malkin(GONE)) grieve@cos.com (David Grieve) uunet!wrs!yuba!hwajin (Hwa Jin Bae) att!lzaz!jer jessop@rlgvax.OPCR.ICL.COM (Lynn Jessop) uunet!unx.dec.com!jjf (8N8-FRANEY) nsc!asylum.sf.ca.us!karl (Karl Auerbach) keith@excelan.COM (Keith Brown) Hakiml Laraqui <uunet!sics.se!laraqui> ncr-sd!ncrcae!lhybl louie@SAYSHELL.UMD.EDU (Louis A. Mamakos) uunet!uu.psi.com!schoff (Martin L. Schoffstall) David Hayes <uunet!csvax.seas.smu.edu!merlin> uunet!ukc.ac.uk!mhs mrose@CHEETAH.NYSER.NET (Marshall Rose) vaillan@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Clement Vaillancourt) nelson@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Russ Nelson) richardt@Legato.COM saunders@gesundheit.West.Sun.Com (Gene Saunders) schoff@PSI.COM ("Martin Lee Schoffstall") Einar Stefferud <voder!ucbvax!nrtc.northrop.com!Stef> Steven Willis <nsc!amdahl!ames!harvard!talcott!wellflt!swillis> torben@FORALIE.ICS.HAWAII.EDU (Torben Nielsen) uunet!sacto.West.Sun.COM!sparc2!ts (Troy Schumaker) amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) curt@dtix.dt.navy.mil (Welch) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >In summary, we should continue discussing migration issues in the >existing forum. When the popular mandate arises for a new forum, >create it as a mailing list. When the mailing list becomes too busy, >establish a gateway to a newsgroup named comp.protocols.iso.migration. Thanks, Bob... and, from my previous postings, I would like to apologize to some persons, if they felt hurt from me. I am sure this new newsgroup will resolve our networking future, and will give us a right direction. Thanks. Kwang Sung Informix Software, Inc. 4100 Bohannon Dr. Menlo Park, CA 94025 415 / 926 - 6758 (O) UUCP: ...!uunet!infmx!kwang -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Those opinions are mine alone, not my employers'.
kwang@infmx.UUCP (Kwang Sung) (06/14/90)
Dear Mr. Bob Sutterfield:
Now I would like to finalize my proposal on creation of a new
newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration".
Here is a list of all persons who have responded to my postings
so far as of 11:00 PST, June 13, 1990. They voted with a serious mind.
I've collected the info to make a decision for all of us.
Obviously, majority wanted to create such a newsgroup on USENET.
Among 54, 30 said "Yes", 17 said "No", and 7 were not clear.
Since there are many companies who are interested in migration/
transition to OSI without having Internet connection, I proposed such a
newsgroup on USENET. I hope we can have always close relationships with
already existing groups such as X3S3.3 (the ANSI group for network and
transport layers), IETF-OSI.
This new newsgroup will discuss any technical or non-technical
issues on any protocols/strategies even besides TCP/IP which might be
helpful to migrate/transit to OSI world.
As I've mentioned earlier, I am sure this newsgroup will resolve
our networking future, and will give us a right direction to OSI.
So, could you create a new newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration"
as soon as possible so that we can discuss seriously and aggressively,
and nobody can bother either "comp.protocols.iso" or "comp.protocols.tcp-ip"
any more ??
Thank you for your help !!
Kwang Sung
Informix Software, Inc.
4100 Bohannon Dr.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
415 / 926 - 6758 (O)
UUCP: ...!uunet!infmx!kwang
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Persons who have responded to my proposal so far: Vote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
uunet!YKTVMX.BITNET!YAKOV Tue Jun 12 08:15:38 1990 Yes
uunet!SPD.3Mail.3Com.COM!Allen_Rochkind Yes
Amit Parghi <uunet!watcgl.waterloo.edu!aparghi> No
bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) Yes
Bill Streilein <nsc!wellfleet.com!bstreile> ?
cire|eric <uunet!cisco.com!cire> No
CLIFF@UCBCMSA (Cliff Frost {415} 642-5360) ?
cperry@STARBASE.MITRE.ORG (Chris Perry) Yes
uunet!elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov!david (David Robinson) ?
uunet!Eng.Sun.COM!dawei (David Yang) Yes
uunet!East.Sun.COM!db (David Brownell) No
dennis@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (Dennis Ferguson) ?
Stef@NRTC.NORTHROP.COM (Einar Stefferud) No
uunet!gateway.mitre.org!epg Yes
Erik Skovgaard <uunet!uvcw.uvic.ca!eskovgaa> Yes
James M Galvin <uunet!TIS.COM!galvin> Yes
ggm@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (George Michaelson) No
goldstein@carafe.enet.dec.com (Fred R. Goldstein) Yes
grieve@cos.com (David Grieve) Yes
uunet!wrs!yuba!hwajin (Hwa Jin Bae) No
att!lzaz!jer Yes
uunet!rlgvax.OPCR.ICL.COM!jessop (Lynn Jessop) ?
uunet!unx.dec.com!jjf (John J. Franey) Yes
nsc!asylum.sf.ca.us!karl (Karl Auerbach) No
keith@excelan.COM (Keith Brown) No
uunet!gateway.mitre.org!kit Yes
uunet!infmx!kwang (Kwang Sung) Yes
Hakiml Laraqui <uunet!sics.se!laraqui> ?
louie@SAYSHELL.UMD.EDU (Louis A. Mamakos) Yes
David Hayes <uunet!csvax.seas.smu.edu!merlin> No
mrose@CHEETAH.NYSER.NET (Marshall Rose) No
Russ Nelson <uunet!sun.soe.clarkson.edu!nelson> No
oberman@rogue.llnl.gov Yes
uunet!gateway.mitre.org!patb (Pat Blankenship) Yes
karn@ka9q.bellcore.com (Phil Karn) Yes
richardt@Legato.COM Yes
saunders@gesundheit.West.Sun.Com (Gene Saunders) Yes
schoff@PSI.COM ("Martin Lee Schoffstall") Yes
Einar Stefferud <voder!ucbvax!nrtc.northrop.com!Stef> Yes
Steven Willis <nsc!amdahl!ames!harvard!talcott!wellflt!swillis> Yes
torben@FORALIE.ICS.HAWAII.EDU (Torben Nielsen) No
uunet!sacto.West.Sun.COM!sparc2!ts (Troy Schumaker) Yes
amanda@mermaid.intercon.com (Amanda Walker) No
curt@dtix.dt.navy.mil (Welch) Yes
<uunet!bigfut.enet.dec.com!callon> ?
David Hayes <uunet!csvax.seas.smu.edu!merlin> No
uunet!rti.rti.org!mystie.rtp.dg.com!don%xyzzy (Don Lehman) No
"Doug McCallum" <nsc!ico.isc.com!dougm> No
uunet!netwrx1!graham Yes
uunet!mlb.semi.harris.com!jdr (Jim Ray) No
uunet!VitaM6!marciano (Marciano Pitargue) Yes
JM Bennett <uunet!watmath!ria.ccs.uwo.ca!csd.uwo.ca!mike> Yes
nsc!cs.UMD.EDU!pete (Pete Cottrell) Yes
nsc!gateway.mitre.org!reichlen Yes
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Disclaimer: Those opinions are mine alone, not my employers'.escher@Apple.COM (Michael Crawford) (06/15/90)
In article <4488@infmx.UUCP> kwang@infmx.UUCP (Kwang Sung) writes: > > Now I would like to finalize my proposal on creation of a new >newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration". > It is not clear to me that the proper procedure for proposing a new group, allowing a month or so for discussion, then a month or so for voting, has been followed. Please review the policies on this in the groups "news.groups" and "news.announce.newusers". It sure seems to me that it is not the proper thing to do to up and announce a new group for what might more properly be a thread of discussion in an existing group. Personally, I would vote against this group until the traffic in the existing groups on the thread has become enough that it is obnoxious to filter out by those who are not interested in it. Also, I would like to see the discussion exist long enough to be sure it will not die out after a few weeks. Please don't be offended, but there has been quite a rash of new groups lately, like psu.passwd.ne.security. I would like to see this reigned in a little. > So, could you create a new newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration" >as soon as possible so that we can discuss seriously and aggressively, >and nobody can bother either "comp.protocols.iso" or "comp.protocols.tcp-ip" >any more ?? You do this yourself by asking the news administrator at your site to issue a "newgroup" command. -- Michael D. Crawford Oddball Enterprises Consulting for Apple Computer Inc. 606 Modesto Avenue escher@apple.com Santa Cruz, CA 95060 Applelink: escher@apple.com@INTERNET# oddball!mike@ucscc.ucsc.edu The opinions expressed here are solely my own. alias make '/bin/make & rn'
keith@excelan.COM (Keith Brown) (06/15/90)
|TCP/IP is NOT popular in Europe. It doesn't surprise me that its not popular |in Korea either. The big reason here is that the PTTs that implement and |use the networks in Europe are connection oriented. They wand Virtual |Circuits. TCP/IP is a datagram network and is not acceptable. ***Rubbish!*** This is a subject I feel qualified to talk about. I'm English and spent the last 5 years working for Excelan (the bulk of who's revenue was derived from the sale of TCP products) providing support and consulting to our customers all over Europe. If TCP wasn't popular then somebody was playing a very cruel trick on me giving me so much work to do every day! Yes the majority of European WAN's are X.25. That's the service that most of the PTT's offer to their customers. However, you don't have to be Gypsy Rose Lee to see that numerous commercial and university sites are using the X.25 service to carry IP packets between remote locations. In fact, IP routers that operate across X.25 were becoming very popular when I left. The work on ISO is a noble effort. However, speaking as network user who can today, from the single screen and keyboard on my desk, log in to all the systems that I need to, get transparent access to the same set of files from almost all of them, non-transparent access from those that I can't, shunt files from coast to coast at perfectly acceptable transfer rates *and* send mail to all my colleagues and friends (even the ones in the UK), I'm left scratching my head as to what powerful new goodies the ISO folks are going to bestow upon me. Anybody know? I'll consider migrating/transitioning/whatever my desktop machine the day I look over someones shoulder and see him/her doing something useful with ISO protocols that I can't... Anyway, this will probably be my last posting on the subject as there are a few engineers not a million miles from where I'm sitting who'll probably read this and lynch me in the car park.... These are my humble opinions, not Novell's. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith Brown Phone: (408) 473 8308 Novell San Jose Development Centre Fax: (408) 433 0775 San Jose, California 95131 Net: keith@novell.COM ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
towfiq@INTERLAN.INTERLAN.COM (06/16/90)
In article <4488@infmx.UUCP> kwang@infmx.UUCP (Kwang Sung) writes:
Now I would like to finalize my proposal on creation of a new
newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration".
Gaah!
Here is a list of all persons who have responded to my postings
[.....]
Obviously, majority wanted to create such a newsgroup on USENET.
Among 54, 30 said "Yes", 17 said "No", and 7 were not clear.
I think this may have been proper procedure in 1982.
[.....]
So, could you create a new newsgroup "comp.protocols.iso.migration"
as soon as possible so that we can discuss seriously and aggressively,
and nobody can bother either "comp.protocols.iso" or "comp.protocols.tcp-ip"
any more ??
Bother the people directly involved in this issue?
Persons who have responded to my proposal so far:
[list deleted]
This is ridiculous. Comp.protocols.iso *maybe* had about two articles
a day in it before this "proposal" came up, and it jumped to a
whopping five after that. I see *no reason* for the creation of a new
newsgroup, especially since the normal procedures for group creation
have been disregarded, or garbled at best.
Kwang: read news.announce.newusers. I think you would probably
realize from there that there is *no need* for an ISO migration group;
relevant articles can just be crossposted to
comp.protocols.{iso,tcp-ip}.
Mark
--
Mark Towfigh, Racal InterLan, Inc. towfiq@interlan.Interlan.COM
W: (508) 263-9929 H: (617) 488-2818 uunet!interlan!towfiq
"The Earth is but One Country, and Mankind its Citizens" -- Baha'u'llah