mark@cbosgd.UUCP (Mark Horton) (10/22/84)
After some success with the first few moderated newsgroups we have
created several more. We're going to treat all of these groups as
production groups, but in a way this can be considered as the second
part of the moderation experiment -- it's up to you, the net, to decide
if they are successful.
Moderated newsgroups are being created because of problems with some of
the unmoderated newsgroups. There are several groups that are being
badly abused, containing postings that are off the topic, multiple
people posting the same response, flames and even personal attacks. It
has become a problem for the readers -- there is so much noise in these
newsgroups that some readers feel forced to unsubscribe -- they don't
have the time to sift through all the noise to see the articles they
would really be interested in. A moderator can keep the discussion on
the topic or topics at hand, eliminate duplicates, answer questions
immediately, and organize the submissions into an order or format that
will help readers pick out what they want to read. If a few readers
get carried away with a discussion that nobody else is interested in,
the moderator can have them carry on the discussion by electronic
mail. Some newsgroups are not really being abused, but the volume is
so high that some moderation is needed to keep things organized. Some
newsgroups suffer from a few hecklers who continually make personal
attacks on the participants who have real issues to discuss.
A moderated newsgroup cannot be posted to directly -- netnews will
refuse to post or forward such articles. To post, send mail to the
moderator, containing the subject and text of the article. (Be sure to
specify a subject, otherwise the moderator will have to make one up for
you. "Please post this to mod.foo" won't make a very interesting
subject for the readers.) By sending mail to the "posting address"
instead of the regular "person address" of the moderator, you label
your message as a submission. Some machines may be running software
that will automatically send mail to the moderator when you run
postnews, if your local table of moderators is up to date. The list of
moderators will be posted regularly in mod.newslists.
It's important to note that we are not taking the corresponding
unmoderated groups away. The moderated and unmoderated groups will
both exist, although each participant in a newsgroup can choose either
the moderated, the unmoderated, or both groups. Flames about the
existence of these moderated groups will be ignored -- if you don't
want your group moderated, then just use the unmoderated group. We
expect that unmoderated groups will continue to exist forever, to avoid
possible censorship (moderators really aren't censors, but many people
worry that they might become censors) and for fast distribution of
news.
More moderated newsgroups are possible. We anticipate that some of the
regular postings you see now in net.news.map and net.news.group will be
moved to moderated groups, making it practical to automatically feed
this traffic to programs on your machine if you wish. These groups
have been created because there was perceived to be a need and someone
has volunteered to be the moderator. If your favorite newsgroup needs
moderation and you would like to volunteer as moderator, let me know.
Here is the current list of moderated newsgroups, along with the names
and addresses of the moderators, the address to mail submissions to
("posting address"), and the address for administrative requests.
Newsgroup Moderator's Name Moderator's Address
Posting Address Administrative Address (and route)
net.announce Mark Horton cbosgd!mark
cbosgd!announce ihnp4!cbosgd!announce-request
net.announce.newusers Gene Spafford gatech!spaf
- akgua!gatech!usenet
mod.map.news Karen Summers-Horton cbosgd!ksh
- ihnp4!cbosgd!map
mod.map.uucp Karen Summers-Horton cbosgd!ksh
- ihnp4!cbosgd!uucpmap
mod.movies Byron Howes mcnc!bch
ecsvax!movies decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!movies
mod.motss Steve Dyer bbncca!sdyer
bbncca!motss bbncca!sdyer
mod.newslists Gene Spafford, Rick Adams gatech!spaf, seismo!rick - akgua!gatech!usenet, seismo!rick
mod.singles Chuq Von Rospach nsc!chuqui
nsc!singles ihnp4!nsc!singles-request
mod.sources John Nelson genrad!john
genrad!sources decvax!genrad!sources-request
mod.std.c Orlando Sotomayor-Diaz hou2d!osd
cbosgd!std-c cbosgd!std-c-request
mod.std.mumps Hokey plus5!hokey
plus5!std-mumps ihnp4!plus5!hokey
Here are brief descriptions of the current moderated newsgroups. A longer
description is usually posted directly to the newsgroup by the moderator.
net.announce:
net.announce is a newsgroup containing only very important announcements;
things that it is reasonable to expect everyone on the net to at least
consider reading (before hitting the 'n' key.) net.announce is serving
the purpose that net.general was originally created for, since experience
has shown that most submissions to net.general are not of interest to the
whole net. The volume on net.announce is deliberately kept very low, so
that people will not feel they need to unsubscribe. Messages on net.announce
should be kept short - if you have something lengthy to say, post it somewhere
else with a pointer to it in net.announce.
To submit to net.announce, send mail to cbosgd!announce. If I agree that the
announcement is really of general interest, I'll post it, otherwise I can
usually suggest an appropriate place where you can post it. If you have
an administrative request not for posting, you can send it to
cbosgd!announce-request. cbosgd is reachable from most major hosts, including
ihnp4, decvax, ucbvax, seismo, and allegra.
Mark Horton
net.announce.newusers:
This newsgroup contains postings intended to be read by newcomers to Usenet.
Once you have read them, you can unsubscribe, but it is recommended that you
read them again every 6 months to refresh your memory and discover any
changes since the last time you read them. We don't normally accept
submissions for this newsgroup, but you can contact the moderator at
gatech!usenet or cbosgd!postann.
Gene Spafford
mod.map.news
Is a newsgroup that will contain the posting of the Usenet Compact
Directory, posted on the first of every month by cbosgd!map. The
creation of this newsgroup will enable system administrators to
automatically save everything posted to this newsgroup, and not
receive questions and comments in the process. All comments about
the maps can still be posted to net.news.map.
Karen Summers-Horton
mod.map.uucp
Is a newsgroup that will contain the posting of the UUCP map,
created by the Usenix UUCP Project. This map will be posted on an
irregular basis, but system administrators can have everything
that is posted to this group automatically saved, so as not
to miss any portion of the map. All comments about these maps
can still be posted to net.news.map.
Karen Summers-Horton
mod.motss:
Mod.motss is a forum for the discussion of gay-related issues of interest
to all members of USENET. It is designed to foster discussion on a wide
variety of topics, such as health problems, parenting, relationships,
clearances, job security and many others. Mod.motss is here for both
gay and straight people, men and women.
Mod.motss is emphatically NOT a newsgroup for the discussion of whether
homosexuality is good or bad, natural or unnatural. Not is it a place
where conduct unsuitable for the net will be allowed or condoned.
These groundrules will be enforced by the moderator.
Articles intended for mod.motss should be posted, preferably, to
'bbncca!motss' though articles sent to 'bbncca!sdyer' will be posted also.
If posted to 'bbncca!sdyer' you should label your message as a submission
to mod.motss. ALL messages sent to 'bbncca!motss' are presumed to be news
articles. Though I do not favor the practice, if you wish an article
to be posted anonymously, that is, stripped of a signature and path
information, say so at the beginning of the message. It should be
emphasized that the moderator takes no responsibility for failing to
post an article anonymously. I try to be careful, but accidents CAN
happen. If it matters that much, better not to post.
Steve Dyer
mod.movies:
The purpose of mod.movies, like net.movies, is to further discussion of all
aspects of film and film making. As moderator of this group, I see my role
as one of organization and protection more than as one who controls discus-
sion. To this end, I propose the following hybrid newsgroup organization:
(1) Reviews -- Good movie reviews are encouraged and need to be out on
a timely basis. (2) Technical Articles -- Informative articles about
film techniques, special effects, film history, etc. (3) Spoiler
Discussions -- messages that give away something about the plot and are
intended for people who have already seen the movie. (4) Film Polls --
a continuous Usenet Film Poll to be posted monthly. (5) Misc --
Rumors, bits of news, requests for information, etc.
Submissions to mod.movies, votes for the film poll, flames at the moderator
and whatnot should be directed to ecsvax!movies. ecsvax is connected
directly to mcnc and should not be too difficult to reach. Until we get
the software situation straightened away, mod.movies may appear to be
generated from mcnc.
Byron C. Howes
{decvax|akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch
mod.newslists:
This group is for the posting of news statistics and news-related
lists. This includes the monthly list of active Usenet groups, the
monthly list of sites sorted by organization name, and the statistics
on top posters and traffic.
Submissions to mod.newslists are generally automatic in nature, and
submissions from readers are probably inappropriate for posting in this
group. However, we are very interested in hearing your comments about
format and content of postings. If you have suggestions for changes,
or perhaps for new categories of postings, please send mail to the
administrative address.
Gene Spafford
{akgua,ihnp4,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
mod.singles:
Mod.singles is a new group that will allow the same discussions that are
appropriate for net.singles in a moderated form. This will help to minimize
the duplication of followups that we see on occasion and will keep inappropriate
topics from showing up. This new group does not make net.singles obsolete but
will work with that group.
To submit to mod.singles mail to the network addres 'nsc!singles'. The site
nsc talks to a number of machines including ihnp4, hplabs, fortune, amd,
and decwrl. Administrative details should be sent to 'nsc!singles-request'.
The moderator will be Chuq Von Rospach and details on how the group will be
moderated will be posted to mod.singles when it is created.
Chuq Von Rospach
mod.sources:
Mod.sources is intended to be an alternative to the unmoderated net.sources
which has of late had many inappropriate articles. mod.sources is especially
useful to those who archive the entire sources newsgroup automatically.
mod.sources would provide several services:
1. Filtering out requests, and other inappropriate articles. 2. Making
sure the submission survived intact through uucp before it is posted to
the net at large. 3. Making sure that articles are in chunks small
enough to be recieved intact on ALL systems (this means chunks <= 64K)
4. Bundling of bug reports into single articles.
As moderator, I will not censor the material, but (since I usually try out
most programs for System V or Berkeley 4.2) I might add my evaluation (or
point out any obvious bugs or local dependencies to the author) before posting.
I may send out pointers to the source articles on the appropriate related
newsgroup (net.unix-wizards for example.)
Mod.sources is an experiment, and will run as an alternative to net.sources
for awhile (i.e. articles will not be posted on BOTH). If the idea catches
on, we can eliminate net.sources, and use mod.sources exclusively. Sources
can be mailed to me at:
{decvax,mit-eddie,wjh12}!genrad!sources
Requests for info about particular submissions can be sent to:
{decvax,mit-eddie,wjh12}!genrad!sources-request
John Nelson
mod.std.c:
We have a proposal for mod.std.c to discuss C Language standardization.
A poll is currently underway to decide if this group is wanted.
The mailing address I will use is homxa!osd7 (for mod.std.c).
Mail to cbosgd!std-c and cbosgd!std-c-request will be forwarded there.
A pre-announcement of the group appeared in net.lang.c. If you want
to vote in the poll, send mail to hou2d!osd.
Orlando Sotomayor-Diaz
mod.std.mumps:
After some discussion, the decision to create moderated newsgroups for
several ANSI standards groups has been made. This newsgroup is for
topics of interest to ANSI X11.1, the Mumps Development Committee
(MDC). For what it is worth, I am a voting member of the committee,
and am moderating the newsgroup because the Secretary (Thomas Salander
at Johns Hopkins) does not yet have access to the net.
Mail submissions to plus5!std-mumps. We hang off ihnp4. I may edit
out chaff. Long Winded Drivel stays where you put it. I will not be
picky. If you have a simple question I may not post it, but I will
reply to you directly instead. If you want it posted regardless, let
me know in your submission.
Mailing list: Many people who would like to read submissions do not
have access to netnews. I will net-mail postings to anybody who wants
them. I am curently mailing to individuals and mail groups on several
UUCP sites and a couple of CSNET sites.
Hokeywmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (10/23/84)
For those who will be reading BOTH mod.xxx and net.xxx; is there ANY way, prior to displaying the article and recognizing it (that is, from the header display alone), to determine that you have already read the article in question on the other group? I doubt it -- such articles won't simply have "mod.xxx,net.xxx" in their headers. So we will have to wade through at least the beginnings of articles we have already read (and, with the automatic inclusion of replied-to articles at the start of postings, maybe we will have several screens to scan through before it becomes clear that this particular article is one we've already read!). THIS sort of problem is why I have repeatedly talked about the "mod" groups containing all the worthwhile traffic from the corresponding "net" group. Once a mod.xxx group exists, those of us without infinite time to spend should be able to unsubscribe to the equivalent net.xxx group, and feel assured that anything of import appearing on net.xxx WILL also appear on mod.xxx. If this is not done, all that results is more groups to wade through! Quit yelling about "net.fascism" and think about this problem. It is important! The only posting other than mine that I've seen which addresses this issue is the one about "sel.xxx" selected groups. Is this likely to occur? (One suggested solution: ALLOW "mod.xxx,net.xxx" to appear in the "Newsgroups:" line; postings addressed to a "mod" group get automatically mailed to the moderator address, but the full "Newsgroups:" line is maintained on BOTH the "mod.xxx" and "net.xxx" displayed headers. This would at least let us recognize that we might have already read the item.) Will Martin USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
woods@hao.UUCP (Greg "Bucket" Woods) (10/23/84)
One thing I'd like to say about moderated newsgroups; I'll make it short
and sweet. This has been stated elsewhere, but since this is the official
place for discussion about the moderated groups themselves (as opposed to
the *contents* of said groups), I want to repeat it here.
I think that in order for moderated groups to serve the purpose for which
they were intended, appropriate articles from the associated net.* group
will have to be included. For example, I cannot safely unsubscribe from
net.singles, even if I read mod.singles and completely trust Chuqui's
judgement, because I am not guaranteed to catch all the interesting
singles discussions in mod.singles . Thus, I still have to wade through
net.singles and wear out my 'n' key to avoid missing something interesting.
The problem with this idea is obvious: it's a hell of a lot more work
for the moderator. But without it, I don't think mod.* groups that have a
corresponding net.* group are going to serve any useful purpose. The idea
behind these groups was to make it possible for me to *avoid* wading
through the net.* group. The way it has gone so far, I do not feel confident
that I can unsubscribe to the net.* group, through no fault of the moderators.
Perhaps we could reduce the increased moderating burden that this would create
by having people take turns serving as moderator? I for one wouldn't mind
taking my turn moderating a newsgroup that I read regularly.
--Greg
--
{ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!stcvax | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!stcvax}
!hao!woods
"...the bus came by, and I got on, that's when it all began..."lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (10/24/84)
> mod.motss: > > Mod.motss is a forum for the discussion of gay-related issues of interest > to all members of USENET. It is designed to foster discussion on a wide > variety of topics, such as health problems, parenting, relationships, > clearances, job security and many others. Mod.motss is here for both > gay and straight people, men and women. > > Mod.motss is emphatically NOT a newsgroup for the discussion of whether > homosexuality is good or bad, natural or unnatural. Not is it a place > where conduct unsuitable for the net will be allowed or condoned. > These groundrules will be enforced by the moderator. Cute. Just define the "issues" to what you want them to be. Automatically exclude those with a different idea of what are "issues." Censorship is now alive and real on Usenet. The "separate but equal" idea also has merit here. -- The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford {amd,decwrl,sun,idi,ittvax}!qubix!lab You can't settle the issue until you've settled how to settle the issue.
ka@hou3c.UUCP (Kenneth Almquist) (10/29/84)
> For those who will be reading BOTH mod.xxx and net.xxx; is there ANY way, > prior to displaying the article and recognizing it (that is, from the > header display alone), to determine that you have already read the > article in question on the other group? I doubt it -- such articles > won't simply have "mod.xxx,net.xxx" in their headers. As the writer of a program designed to sit between postnews and inews, let me say what I have currently implemented. If one of the newsgroups that you try to post to is moderated, the article will be mailed to the moderator of that group, with the newsgroup line intact. It is then the responsibility of the moderator to post to all the groups that you requested. If you post to multiple moderated groups, your article will be mailed to only one of the moderators. It is the responsiblity of that moderator to negotiate with the moderators of the other moderated groups to decide whether the article is appropriate for all groups, and if it is to post it to all the moderated groups. (Of course, if you try to post to net.announce and some other group, the moderator should tell you that that is improper.) The only problem with this is that your article will have to be approved by the moderator before it can be posted to any of the groups, even the unmoderated ones. The only way to solve this problem is to provide an "Add newsgroup to article" control message, which is probably not worth the effort. Kenneth Almquist