williams@kirk.DEC (John Williams 223-3402) (03/19/86)
In France, there are almost no regulations concerning alcohol. Table wine is an accepted beverage at the family dinner table. In France, there also happens to exist one of the lowest alcoholism rates in the world. Now for a question: When are employers going to get hip on psychology? John.
miller@loral.UUCP (David P. Miller) (03/21/86)
In article <1771@decwrl.DEC.COM>, williams@kirk. DEC writes: > In France, there are almost no regulations concerning alcohol. Table > wine is an accepted beverage at the family dinner table. In France, > there also happens to exist one of the lowest alcoholism rates in the > world. > Now for a question: When are employers going to get hip on > psychology? > John. That's not the way I hear it, John. From what I've gathered France has the second highest incidence of alcoholism in the free-world. As a matter of fact, some years ago I read a Wall Street Journal article which listed France as having the highest rate of alcoholism for children 10-and-under, in the world. I have to admit the source is somewhat questionable for the latter statistic, but I've read of similar figures from other publications, too. Psycologically yours, BIG DAVE. -- David P. Miller - Loral Instrumentation. / USUAL \ sdcsvax!sdcc3!loral!miller \ DISCLAIMER / ******************************************************************************** "Bota agua no feijao, que chegou mais um ...."
briand@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Diehm) (03/22/86)
In article <1771@decwrl.DEC.COM> williams@kirk.DEC (John Williams 223-3402) writes: >In France, there are almost no regulations concerning alcohol. Table >wine is an accepted beverage at the family dinner table. In France, >there also happens to exist one of the lowest alcoholism rates in the >world. > Now for a question: When are employers going to get hip on >psychology? > John. These aren't the "facts" I remember. A few years ago there were TV reports of widespread alcoholism in France, and widespread use of cheap vintages was cited as the cause. Now, I'm not going to say I'm right, as I can't name references, but before a statement like the original posting is made, the author should be willing to back up the representations with sources. I am unwilling to believe what is being said merely because he said it, since it directly contradicts what I have heard elsewhere. I will say by direct observation that the European attitude toward alcohol is more enlightened, and that having it around in family situations with children seems to make it less of a big deal when people come of legal age. However, I will also say by direct observation that it does not prevent teen-age drunkenness - rebellion at that age is too strong to be suppressed by en- lightened attitudes. The danger of the European attitude however seems to be more of a tendency to unknowingly slip into a quiet dependency. Maybe that is even more insidious, and the original poster of the above article should consider that as part of a complex problem - more complex than his simplistic stand above would indicate. -Brian Diehm Tektronix, Inc. (expressed opinions are my own and not necessarily Tek's)
hpb@cernvax.UUCP (hpb) (03/22/86)
In article <1771@decwrl.DEC.COM> williams@dec-kirk.UUCP writes: >In France, there are almost no regulations concerning alcohol. Table >wine is an accepted beverage at the family dinner table. In France, >there also happens to exist one of the lowest alcoholism rates in the >world. > Now for a question: When are employers going to get hip on >psychology? > John. I agree with you as far as saying that alcohol is a very natural part of every French meal, if you ask for milk at dinner people look at you as if you are not well. (Water barely makes it). I would double (tripple) check up on your statistics when it comes to alcoholism and alcohol related deaths in France, though. Regretably I do not have access to the "hard statistics" here, but I am POSITIVELY SURE that your observation of low rate of alcoholism in France is very wrong - it represents a huge probem. I have nothing against alcohol if one likes (the effect of) it. In quantity, over time though it does have an unquestionable effect on most people's liver, the French's included. Hans Peter What I have written above has nothing to do with where I work and, I tried responding directly to the poster of the above article but my mail deamon could not find him. If you are preparing a flame telling me where this followup actually ought to be posted - save yourself. I know, and it's not here...
gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (03/28/86)
In article <220@ecrcvax.UUCP> snoopy@ecrcvax.UUCP (Sebastian Schmitz) writes: > In fact just this Monday, the "Spiegel" ( a well known German > news weekly) has published some statistics, re. juvenile > alcoholism. So lets inject some figures into this debate. > Samples were from 2300 students from Bremen and Berlin,i.e. not > Bavaria, where alcohol is more common: > > * 37 % of all students age 12 - 24 drink alcoholic beverages > regularly. [ ... and increases thru-out the teens. ] Seb offered some explanations why this might be true, like peer pressure, among others. Here is another: the weight of stress upon pubescent, adolescent children. (a brief diversion) An article in "Science News" about a year ago reported about experiments with elephants (yes, elephants) who were divided into two groups, each supplied with both water and alcohol (?wine). Their respective surroundings were identical, except that one group had a smaller living space, ie, a denser population. This group tended to go for the wine quite a bit (a few (humorous) descriptions of drunken elephants were provided). The other group didn't touch the stuff (or very little, if at all). It was also reported that while elephants do not typically find barrels of wine in the jungles, they *do* find rotted fruit, and guess what's in that? (not a very good vintage, tho' ...). This suggests some relationship between stress and the consumption of drugs. I suggest that this is related to the adolescent consumption of alcohol quite directly. We find increasing alcohol use coincidentally over the same time period of puberty, which, as you may recall, is a rather stressful period of life. This, topped with the typical adolescent preoccupation with self-image, suggests a whole bunch of stress, and like over-crowded elephants, they seek a temporary means of escape. [ note that this cross-posted to net.med and net.sci, and that followups are directed to them and not net.jobs where the topic arose. ] -- Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,seismo,hplabs}!amdahl!gam ~ Ah don't need no diamond ring ~ ~ Ah don't need no Cadillac car! ~ ~ Ah just wanna drink my Lone Star beer ~ ~ Down in the Lightnin' bar! ~