emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (10/13/90)
From: emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) My site gets a feed of the sub.* and dnet.* newsgroups, which are in German. There is a fair amount of interesting stuff discussed in these groups, and it's a good way to put that high school German to practice. More to the point, there is a fair amount of software developed in Germany which is made available for anonymous FTP, that is to say stuff available there and nowhere else. So, when I see in sub.tex that there's an interesting set of TeX macros to be had from "forwiss.uni-passau.de", my first inclination is to go and take a look and get them. And the last thing that I want to see is "Network is unreachable" with the traceroute stopping at my local NSS. It is extremely frustrating, that I can learn about European internet resources via Usenet, but when I go to connect to the the NSF backbone blocks my access. Do any of the USA "commercial" internet service providers provide access to the European networks which aren't permitted to use the NSF backbone? I.e., if my regional network were to get say an Alternet or PSI connection they could receive the Euro-routes that way and there would be access. Or perhaps my regional already has a transatlantic link, and they could bypass the backbone that way? One way or another there has to be a legit way to be "part of" the Euro-internet and not get blockaded by the NSF. --Ed Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu> moderator, comp.archives ps. forwiss.uni-passau.de [132.231.1.10], in /archive/tex/macros/nice20.zoo. "Jetzt hoffe ich, dass das Makropaket einen groesseren Kreis von Anwendern findet."
emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) (10/13/90)
In article <EMV.90Oct12224402@josephus.math.lsa.umich.edu> emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
macros to be had from "forwiss.uni-passau.de", my first inclination is
to go and take a look and get them. And the last thing that I want to
see is "Network is unreachable" with the traceroute stopping at my
My local friendly network service trouble desk informs me that the NSFnet
has a request to add this to their routing tables, so I guess you should
tone down some of the rhetoric of the previous message.
--Ed
Edward Vielmetti, U of Michigan math dept <emv@math.lsa.umich.edu>
moderator, comp.archivesnipper@i32fs2.ira.uka.de (Arnold Nipper) (10/13/90)
In article <EMV.90Oct12224402@josephus.math.lsa.umich.edu> emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) writes: >From: emv@math.lsa.umich.edu (Edward Vielmetti) > >My site gets a feed of the sub.* and dnet.* newsgroups, which are in >German. There is a fair amount of interesting stuff discussed in >these groups, and it's a good way to put that high school German to >practice. More to the point, there is a fair amount of software >developed in Germany which is made available for anonymous FTP, that >is to say stuff available there and nowhere else. > >So, when I see in sub.tex that there's an interesting set of TeX >macros to be had from "forwiss.uni-passau.de", my first inclination is >to go and take a look and get them. And the last thing that I want to >see is "Network is unreachable" with the traceroute stopping at my >local NSS. It is extremely frustrating, that I can learn about >European internet resources via Usenet, but when I go to connect to >the the NSF backbone blocks my access. That's not the right point of view. Obviously U Passau does not want to have access to the Internet. There are at least four access points to the Internet in Germany ( via EASInet, DFN, Unido, XLINK ). > >Do any of the USA "commercial" internet service providers provide >access to the European networks which aren't permitted to use the NSF >backbone? I.e., if my regional network were to get say an Alternet or >PSI connection they could receive the Euro-routes that way and there >would be access. Or perhaps my regional already has a transatlantic XLINK provides access to PSI net for everyone in Germany who wants. But of course you have to pay for services. :-) >link, and they could bypass the backbone that way? One way or another >there has to be a legit way to be "part of" the Euro-internet and not >get blockaded by the NSF. > >--Ed > Arnold ******************************************************************************** Arnold Nipper *** Universitaet Karlsruhe, Am Fasanengarten 5 * nipper@ira.uka.de XLINK, Inst. fuer Betr.- und Dialogsysteme, D-7500 Karlsruhe * +49 721 608 4331 ********************************************************************************
hwb@MERIT.EDU (Hans-Werner Braun) (10/14/90)
Ed Vielmetti:
Given all your frequent interactions with the Merit/UMnet/NSFNET NOC with
the hope for increased knowledge on your part about how things interact, I
find it regrettable that you have to air your frustrations in public, in
particular given the tone you used. Look, you describe access to a
University, for which in general NSF takes a quite liberal view. If there
is a University in at least a country that the US is friends with, NSF,
to the best of my knowledge, never objected to have them be known to the
NSFNET. With some international sites we need to get concurrance from a
national coordination body, in the case you mentioned, University of Passau in
Germany, we need concurrance from, e.g., DFN as a german national coordination
body. Once we receive a confirmation we need to request permission from
the NSF for each and every international network to be configured. The NSF
confirmation is to protect both NSF as well as Merit. Sometimes, including
in this case, where a network is requested to be configured via multiple NSS
entry points, we also need to confirm the announcements with all the sites a
network should be configured for, to allow for the proper coordination as
well as the proper metric configuration for primary, secondary, etc. paths.
All of this is standard procedure and should not take more than a few days.
If a network is unknown, it has typically either not been requested for
addition to the policy data base or it is not been dynamically announced
at the time you tried by the client network to the NSS where it would be
announced to or there is a time window between a request and the configuration
(which should typically not last for more than a few days and only happen once
until it is configured).
I will attach some relevant messages which show you that you got caught in the
window between request and configuration.
An intelligent approach towards dealing with these kind of issues would be to
communicate with your local provider of campus networking. Generally this
should work fine with most campuses, which then deal with the appropriate
regional network and/or the NSFNET NOC. In your case, as you know, they are
all the same (UMnet + Merit + NSFNET) and you should have been able to get the
information easily. You are otherwise wasting alot of time, effort and
bandwidth.
Hans-Werner Braun
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: nsfnet-admin@merit.edu
Subject: Network Announcement Change Request
Cc: hostmaster@mcsun.EU.net, hostmaster@germany.eu.net, kaehler@zpl.dfn.dbp.de,
wilhelm@zpl.dfn.dbp.de, staff@sunic.sunet.se, ops@uunet.uu.net,
Ruediger Volk <unido!rv@relay.EU.net>
From: hostmaster@mcsun.EU.net
X-Organisation: EUnet/Alternet
X-Phone: +31 20 5924112
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 90 19:50:39 +0100
Sender: dfk@mcsun.EU.net
Hi,
Please add the following networks to the NSFnet routing database.
All networks are in Germany (no problems with east and west anymore :-).
All of them have ICS sponsored by NSF according to their admins.
Routing is coordinated within RIPE and US connectivity is via
EUnet/Alternet with backup via NORDUnet.
Thank you for your cooperation
Daniel Karrenberg
EUnet/Alternet Routing Contact
***** Network Announcement Change Request *****
Inbound Announcements Add/Del
to NSFNET or Change
--------------------------- ---------
Network Number/Name 1stAS# 2ndAS# 3rdAS# 4thAS# A/D/C Country
------------------- ------ ------ ------ ------ --------- -------
130.149 TUB 701 224 97 A Germany
132.180 UNIBT-LAN 701 224 97 A Germany
132.231 UNI-PASSAU 701 224 97 A Germany
134.100 UNIHH 701 224 97 A Germany
134.107 MPPMU-LAN 701 224 97 A Germany
141.1 DFN-WIN1 (ECRCNET) 701 224 97 A Germany
141.2 DFN-WIN2 (UNI-FFM) 701 224 97 A Germany
192.54.41 EMBNET 701 224 97 A Germany
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 12 Oct 90 15:47 GMT+0100
From: Martin Wilhelm <wilhelm%zpl.dfn.dbp.de@RELAY.CS.NET>
To: ip-register@MERIT.EDU
Cc: hostmaster%germany.eu.dbp.de@RELAY.CS.NET
Subject: Request for Handling
Sheri,
can you please process the following request of Ruediger Volk ?
All he institutes mentioned below belong to the academia and are members
of the DFN association.
Best regards and thanks a lot
-martin
------------------------------ cut here ---------------------------------
>From rv Mon Oct 8 07:57:35 1990
To: kaehler@zpl.dfn.dbp.de, wilhelm@zpl.dfn.dbp.de
Subject: Zulassung zum NSFnet
Cc: hostmaster@Germany.EU.net, hostmaster@noc.EU.net
Dear Colleagues,
please, forward this request to admit the following IP networks to use
the NSFnet backbone to MERIT.
To enable us and other people involved to follow the procedure and
help if anything should hang I suggest to use
Cc: hostmaster@noc.EU.net, hostmaster@Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE
on all transactions.
net name net number organization
DMSWWU-ETHER 128.176 Univ. Muenster
UEGNET 132.252 Univ. Essen
UNI-OLDENBURG 134.106 Univ. Oldenburg
WICOB 192.55.244 Wissenschaftskolleg Berlin
For the first three networks listed the appropriate NOCs will be sending
requests for including routing information into the NSFnet routing policy
data base in parallel.
The appropriate NOCs also will request routing support at MERIT for the
following networks, which - to my knowledge - already have NSF's approval;
for smoothing the procedure I ask you to confirm these networks to MERIT
as well.
Net name net number Organization
TUB 130.149 TU Berlin
UNIBT-LAN 132.180 Univ. Bayreuth
UNI-PASSAU 132.231 Uni Passau
UNIHH 134.100 Univ. Hamburg
MPPMU-LAN 134.107 MPI f. Physik, Munich
EMBNET 192.54.41 EMBL Heidelberg
DFN-WIN1 (ECRCNET) 141.1 ECRC Munich
DFN-WIN2 (UNIFFM-NET) 141.2 Univ. Frankfurt
Thanks for your cooperation,
Ruediger Volk
---------- End of Copy ----------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------dyer@spdcc.COM (Steve Dyer) (10/14/90)
In article <9010132308.AA16298@kiddo.merit.edu> hwb@MERIT.EDU (Hans-Werner Braun) writes: >Given all your frequent interactions with the Merit/UMnet/NSFNET NOC with >the hope for increased knowledge on your part about how things interact, I >find it regrettable that you have to air your frustrations in public, in >particular given the tone you used...You are otherwise wasting alot of time, >effort and bandwidth. Sitting here, it is not at all clear which was the more obnoxious message, nor which the greater waste of bandwidth. I'd rather read a bit of enthusiastic questioning given the spirit of this list than the same amount of pompous bureaucratese offered in response. -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer dyer@arktouros.mit.edu, dyer@hstbme.mit.edu