[comp.protocols.tcp-ip] Internet Access Costs

mra@srchtec.uucp (Michael Almond) (11/25/90)

We were recently discussing the cost of connecting to the internet.  Someone
mentioned a magic number of $100 per month to connect to the net.  The lowest
price I had found at the time was a SLIP connection to PSInet for $250.

We'll David Smith from PSI gave me a call earlier this week to let me know, due
to some cost reductions in hardware, they will be offering SLIP connections to
PSInet for $150 a month.  This deal will only last until the end of the year
though.   I suppose they are testing the water to see if price really does
effect their market.

Anyway, we are definitely going with PSInet.  The Atlanta POP will be up
sometime in January and I can let you everyone know what SLIPing is like
on the internet.

The only bad aspect of SLIPing I can see so far is that PSInet will not call
us when they see packets with our address in them.  However, our LAN will
call PSInet because we're using a NetBlazer.

One other item: PSI says we will not have a constant IP #.  It supposedly
changes each time we establish a connection with them.  However, our address
will remain constant (probably searchtech.com).  I'm hoping this will not cause
too many problem with our local setup, but I guess we're going to find out!

---
Michael R. Almond (Georgia Tech Alumnus)           mra@srchtec.uucp (registered)
search technology, inc.				        emory!stiatl!srchtec!mra
Atlanta, Georgia                                         (404) 441-1457 (office)
[search]: Systems Engineering Approaches to Research and Development

jclark@sdcc6.ucsd.edu (John Clark) (11/25/90)

In article <315@srchtec.UUCP> mra@srchtec.uucp (Michael Almond) writes:
>We were recently discussing the cost of connecting to the internet.  Someone
>mentioned a magic number of $100 per month to connect to the net.  The lowest
>price I had found at the time was a SLIP connection to PSInet for $250.

I have some questions about PSInet. Does anyone know the answer to
the following:

1) Does it exist in Southern California?
2) If it does are there one time charges and then monthly plus
     connect charges?
3> Does one's SLIPped Internet number change from one connect to another.
    Or can one have an assigned Internet number for Mail etc.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu

schoff@PSI.COM ("Martin Lee Schoffstall") (11/25/90)

 In article <315@srchtec.UUCP> mra@srchtec.uucp (Michael Almond) writes:
 >We were recently discussing the cost of connecting to the internet.  Someone
 >mentioned a magic number of $100 per month to connect to the net.  The lowest
 >price I had found at the time was a SLIP connection to PSInet for $250.

 I have some questions about PSInet. Does anyone know the answer to
 the following:

 1) Does it exist in Southern California?

LA

 2) If it does are there one time charges and then monthly plus
      connect charges?

One time charge of $150.

 3> Does one's SLIPped Internet number change from one connect to another.
     Or can one have an assigned Internet number for Mail etc.

Mail is handled by {uucp,pcmail,pop} protocols and MX records, its
not an issue.

 John Clark
 jclark@ucsd.edu

nraoaoc@nmt.edu (NRAO Array Operations Center) (11/27/90)

In article <315@srchtec.UUCP> mra@srchtec.uucp (Michael Almond) writes:
>[...]
>One other item: PSI says we will not have a constant IP #.  It supposedly
>changes each time we establish a connection with them.  However, our address
>will remain constant (probably searchtech.com).  I'm hoping this will not cause
>too many problem with our local setup, but I guess we're going to find out!

Say what?????

I fail to see how this can be the case. Granted they can change their tables
any time they want, *but* they have the following restrictions:

     a) they have to use an Internet number assigned to them/you by the NIC
     b) the rest of the Internet has to understand the routing (if it's
        advertised, and if it isn't no-one can reach you)
     c) your system has to know *before establishing the connection* what
        its own Internet address is

Are you sure that they meant your "IP #" changes? If you are connecting
through SLIP, then your circuit number might change each time, depending
how many other connections are being made at the same time. But your own
actual Internet address should stay the same.

Even if it *could* be done, it would be such an administrative nightmare
trying to figure out "who's 123.456.789.10 this morning?" that I can't think
why they *would* do it.

I dunno, maybe the connections are volatile enough that they just assign an 
IP address in sequence or something every time a connections comes up, but
it sounds pretty weird to me.
-- 
Ruth Milner
Systems Manager                     NRAO/VLA                    Socorro NM
                            rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu

lars@spectrum.CMC.COM (Lars Poulsen) (11/30/90)

In article <315@srchtec.UUCP> mra@srchtec.uucp (Michael Almond) writes:
>>One other item: PSI says we will not have a constant IP #.  It supposedly
>>changes each time we establish a connection with them.  However, our address
>>will remain constant (probably searchtech.com).

In article <1990Nov26.233848.20828@nmt.edu> rmilner@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
   (Ruth Milner) writes:
>I fail to see how this can be the case. Granted they can change their tables
>any time they want, *but* they have the following restrictions:
>
>     a) they have to use an Internet number assigned to them/you by the NIC
>     b) the rest of the Internet has to understand the routing (if it's
>        advertised, and if it isn't no-one can reach you)
>     c) your system has to know *before establishing the connection* what
>        its own Internet address is
>    ...
>Even if it *could* be done, it would be such an administrative nightmare
>trying to figure out "who's 123.456.789.10 this morning?" that I can't think
>why they *would* do it.
>
>Ruth Milner
>Systems Manager                     NRAO/VLA                    Socorro NM

Ruth,
	The network number stays constant, the IP address changes.
(The confusion seems to have been caused by a bad choice of words:
The posting says "internet number" for "IP address" and "address" for
"fully qualified domain name".)

	Crazy as it seems at first glance, dynamic IP addresses are
not actually all that unusual. Client-only PC's often do this. And with
domain name service, it is doable even to handle incoming connections.

	Yes, it does create a few management hassles. You need to have a
name server with a transaction interface to change the name/address
mappings on the fly (where the run-of-the-mill BIND just reads a table
when it is reloaded) and you cannot have management utilities that
assume that name/address mappings are constant.

	But technically, at the low level, it is no harder than ARP.
You need an ARP-like handshake before you switch to IP mode. Most SLIP
interfaces already have a handshake (unix login !) before turning into
IP interfaces, so there definitely is a mechanism to do that.

	As to WHY one wants to do this ? When you have a couple hundred
PC's around, it is easier to just declare them to be generic than to try
to keep track of locations and owners for all of them. Likewise, network
providers may have only allocated class C network numbers for a routing
cluster, and may prefer the dynamic addresses over changing backbone
routing implementations with hardcoded netmasks.

/ Lars
-- 
/ Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer
  CMC Rockwell  lars@CMC.COM

urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs) (12/01/90)

In comp.protocols.tcp-ip, article <1990Nov29.212559.7284@spectrum.CMC.COM>,
<
< 	Crazy as it seems at first glance, dynamic IP addresses are
< not actually all that unusual. Client-only PC's often do this. And with
< domain name service, it is doable even to handle incoming connections.
< 
< 	Yes, it does create a few management hassles. You need to have a
< name server with a transaction interface to change the name/address
< mappings on the fly (where the run-of-the-mill BIND just reads a table
< when it is reloaded) and you cannot have management utilities that
< assume that name/address mappings are constant.
< 
Problem 1: Name server records get cached. A TTL of five minutes is probably
not a good idea.
Problem 2: What if my connection breaks (noisy phone line, idle connection
timeout) and I have to reconnect? Suddenly my IP number is different: and the
existing connection is broken for good. Not good either.

< 	As to WHY one wants to do this ? When you have a couple hundred
< PC's around, it is easier to just declare them to be generic than to try
< to keep track of locations and owners for all of them. Likewise, network
< providers may have only allocated class C network numbers for a routing
< cluster, and may prefer the dynamic addresses over changing backbone
< routing implementations with hardcoded netmasks.
< 
That might work for PCs or similar clients, but for external SLIP/PPP
connections (which might even have their own Class C network hanging off the
remote end) it seems to be preferable to give each client its own IP
address.

-- 
Matthias Urlichs -- urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de     /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 - 7500 Karlsruhe 1 - FRG -- +49+721+621127(0700-2330)   \o)/