hbs@LL-SST.ARPA (Hayden Schultz) (02/05/88)
In reference to the X vs NeWS article and rebuttle by Yakim Martillo and Guy Harris. I'm rather interested in the different technical merits of the two systems-- of which Mr. Martillo was very sparse on. My experience with X is very limited, but NeWS seems to be technically superior from my point of view. The differences that I'm aware of are: X.11 1) Currently more people using it 2) PD Software 3) Snappy GNU Emacs Interface 4) Perhaps easier to implement 5) More like the "traditional" graphics environment NeWS 1) More device independant 2) Trivially printable to the highest resolution of the printer 3) Less network overhead (for smart applications) 4) Much more customizable It seems to me that NeWS (however much I hate that stupid cApITaliZation) has all of the significant technical benefits of X that an applications programmer or user would see. I am very fond of GNU emacs. It seems to me that NeWS has the potential to provide the same kind of customization for the window interfaces via Postscript as emacs provides customization for the editor. I don't think that X has that potential, however many people use it right now. Hayden Schultz MIT Lincoln Lab, HW-31 244 Wood St. Lexington, MA, 02173 hbs@ll-sst.arpa (617)-863-5500 ex 3463 PS. Does anyone actually LIKE the NeWS capitalization?
greg@gergle.UUCP (02/05/88)
>To tell the truth I don't see many people running NeWS on Apollo >machines, VAXstations (Unix and VMS), PCs, HP workstations, 3Bs or any >of the 386 Unix boxes though X is found on all such systems. I can only speak on one of the above, because that is where my expeirence ends. I ported 1.0 NeWS to a monochrome Apollo DN3000 last spring, while at the University of Michigan. Why is the port just wasting disk space, instead of being distributed? Two reasons. First, Apollo jumped on the X11 bandwagon. Why, because NeWS was created by their arch-rival Sun. Second, licensing restrictions on NeWS. I figure I'm about as die hard of a NeWS fan as they come, and part of me still hopes it will die a hideous and horrible death, because Sun didn't make it public domain, so that it could have attained its true potential. >My feeling is the developers who >pulled off NeWS should be congratulated. But anyone in computer >science knows you throw away your first couple of attempts at the >development of a system and then do it right. It is my understanding, that NeWS source was tossed twice and what we see today is the third generation. -Greg Cockroft
klee@daisy.UUCP (Ken Lee) (02/06/88)
This discussion so far has mainly discussed the differences between window manager user interfaces, not the window systems themselves. I'd be interested in hearing what people have to say about the deeper issues. Here are some things that concern me right now: 1. The NeWS server is completely and dynamically extensible. At any time, the client can download functions or programs for the server to execute. In X, these functions must all run on the client side (also possible in NeWS, but not necessary), thus requiring much more communication between the client and sever. Extensibility is especially important for fast mouse interaction and sophisticated graphics output (such as 3D). The NeWS language is object-oriented, with a lightweight process capability, to make the programming easy. Yes, I've heard about the limited compile-time extensibility of X, mainly that it doesn't really work. 2. The NeWS interface to C sucks. The X interface to C is much nicer, with a rich Xlib and Xtk. SunView 2.0 for NeWS has been mentioned on the net, but I haven't seen it yet. 3. I've heard people complain about X's limited usefulness with future, advanced hardware, while NeWS should be easily extended. I'm not really familiar with this issue, but would appreciate other people's comments. Thanks. Ken
mday@cgl.ucsf.edu (Mark Day) (02/09/88)
In article <828@daisy.UUCP> klee@daisy.UUCP (Ken Lee) writes: >2. The NeWS interface to C sucks. The X interface to C is much nicer, >with a rich Xlib and Xtk. SunView 2.0 for NeWS has been mentioned on >the net, but I haven't seen it yet. At the recent Sun User's Group meeting, Sun claimed that all Beta testing was done, and the new version of NeWs would ship in mid-January. Does anyone at Sun, or any of the beta test sites have a revised estimate for its ship date? ---------- Mark Day UUCP: ..ucbvax!ucsfcgl!mday ARPA: mday@cgl.ucsf.edu BITNET: mday@ucsfcgl.BITNET
montnaro@sprite.uucp (Skip Montanaro) (02/09/88)
In article <10683@cgl.ucsf.EDU> mday@socrates.ucsf.edu.UUCP (Mark Day) writes: >At the recent Sun User's Group meeting, Sun claimed that all Beta testing >was done, and the new version of NeWs would ship in mid-January. Does >anyone at Sun, or any of the beta test sites have a revised estimate for >its ship date? Funny, Sun never told us that the beta test was over. (We beta tested both 1.0 and 1.1.) Of course, they weren't very good about responding to bug reports either. I finally gave up sending them beta and bug reports. I will admit I could have been more diligient on the beta reports. To answer your original question: No we've received no indication of the NeWS 1.1 ship date, nor have we received a tape. Skip (montanaro@ge-crd.arpa, uunet!steinmetz!sprite!montanaro)
david@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (David Robinson) (02/10/88)
In article <9469@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, montnaro@sprite.uucp (Skip Montanaro) writes: > In article <10683@cgl.ucsf.EDU> mday@socrates.ucsf.edu.UUCP (Mark Day) writes: > >At the recent Sun User's Group meeting, Sun claimed that all Beta testing > >was done, and the new version of NeWs would ship in mid-January. Does > >anyone at Sun, or any of the beta test sites have a revised estimate for > >its ship date? > To answer your original question: No we've received no indication of > the NeWS 1.1 ship date, nor have we received a tape. From a press release I have just received by Sun about NeWS, put out at Uniforum: "NeWS release 1.1 is currently shipping and lists for $100 per copy for Sun workstations." -- David Robinson elroy!david@csvax.caltech.edu ARPA david@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov ARPA {cit-vax,ames}!elroy!david UUCP Disclaimer: No one listens to me anyway!