jpmuller@CS.UCL.AC.UK (Peter Muller) (05/03/88)
Does anybody out there know of any plans for, products for NeWS on the MacII sitting on top of or underneath the Finder rather than A/UX? Does the A/UX version imply that Apple will at long last have a window interface to the MacII running A/UX? If so, who is going to customise it so that it looks like the "real thing"? Peter Muller
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/05/88)
In article <8805030706.AA16527@brillig.umd.edu> jpmuller@CS.UCL.AC.UK (Peter Muller) writes: >Does anybody out there know of any plans for, products for NeWS on the MacII >sitting on top of or underneath the Finder rather than A/UX? >Does the A/UX version imply that Apple will at long last have a window >interface to the MacII running A/UX? If so, who is going to customise it >so that it looks like the "real thing"? As I understand it {I might be wrong} apple isn't going with NeWS, they're using X-Windows for their A/UX. I'm not sure I understand you second question? What's the real thing. You can make calls to the Macintosh's "presentation manager" from both A/UX and the Macintosh OS. And if you write your code in MPW C then you can compile it with "very limited" modifications under A/UX and it wil will run. And what do you mean by the real thing, Apple's had a Windowing system for 4 years now, sounds pretty real to me. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RICHER@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (Mark Richer) (05/05/88)
APple will offer X 11 as a separate product for A/UX, probably at the time of the next A/UX release (fall?). Apple has said nothing about supporting News, but third-party vendors are already selling NewS for the mac, both under the Finder/MacOS and A/UX. I believe the addresses of the companies selling these products have appeared on this list recently, but I don't have them handy. Apple has not made any committments with regard to a graphical interface to A/UX using the toolbox OR X windows. Mark Disclaimer: I do not represent Apple or Stanford University or anyone else -------
verber@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark A. Verber) (05/05/88)
It is hard to say what window system for A/UX Apple will really support in the end. I have heard a lot of talk about X.11. On the other hand there are a few NeWS team people from Sun now working at Apple. The product manager for A/UX use to be Sun's Window System product manager. I expect we might see both NeWS and X. Time will tell. Cheers, ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Science Department Mark A. Verber The Ohio State University verber@cis.ohio-state.edu +1 (614) 292-7344 cbosgd!osu-cis!verber
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/05/88)
In article <12395687844.72.RICHER@SUMEX-AIM.Stanford.EDU> RICHER@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (Mark Richer) writes: >Apple has not made any committments with regard to a graphical interface to >A/UX using the toolbox OR X windows. Haven't you read the the industry news and/or the A/UX documentation. Apple makes a very big point out of the fact that they have allows complete access to the toolbox under A/UX. And if you write your code in MPW C it is suppose to compile with out modification under A/UX, toolbox code and all! David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RICHER@SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU (Mark Richer) (05/07/88)
I'm not sure if you are being facetious or not, but there are two different issues at least: (1) a finder-like interface to A/UX, and (2) access to the Mac toolbox under A/UX. With regard to (1), Apple has not made any public statements about a graphical interface to the unix file system akin to the Open Look announcement. With regard to (2), one needs to separate some of the marketing hype (which is carefully worded perhaps to be purposely misleading) from Apple from the precise claims that are made in documentation and elsewhere. Much of the toolbox is supported currently with the pcc compiler, but it states in the A/UX documentation which toolbox managers are fully, partially, or not at all supported. I suppose if you want to write your own assembly language glue routines you could say you have full access to the complete toolbox, though parts of the toolbox make no sense in unix anyhow. Two glaring parts of the toolbox which are not currently supported are the appletalk & printing manager. So even if a Mac (binary) application runs on A/UX there is no convenient way to print to a laserwriter over an Appletalk connection. Many Mac applications probably won't run now because they did not follow the guidelines precisely. And code written in MPW C is not 100% compatible with A/UX PCC. There are compiler, operating system, and toolbox support differences that make it unlikely that you can recompile source WITHOUT change (take out your compiler flags). The MPW compiler does not run under A/UX and only a few MPW tools like rez and derez currently run. We've been there and right now it's a hassle, at best, to move back and forth between MPW and A/UX. The Mac OS and A/UX file partitions cannot talk to each other and A/UX can only read/write 400K MFS floppies. We use kermit to transfer files between A/UX and a MacPlus connected as terminal via the serial port. And in case you don't know it might be enlightening to realize that you can currently run only one toolbox application at a time under A/UX. This means a multifinder world under A/UX is not possible at present --- ain't that funny considering that unix is multitasking and multifinder really isn't. Therefore if you have an application that puts up several shell windows at once, you cannot run another toolbox application at the same time. So A/UX really has no multitasking windowing system (except X windows RSN) as well as no graphical (finder-like) interface. It's just a very nice character-oriented unix which can run one Mac binary application at a time OR one toolbox-using A/UX application at a time. And you can shut the machine off and reboot and run Mac applications on the Mac OS. The big plus about A/uX is the nice autoconfiguration and recovery features -- that's where Apple has put their "user-friendliness" mark so far. ANd I guess the price is attractice. I realize this has nothing to do with News, but I hope it clarifies some of the confusion which surrounds A/UX. Mark -------
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (05/08/88)
Thank your for the additional information. Having worked with A/UX I can symapathise with the problems that you have outlined. I realize that A/UX is not perfect. But then Unix is not all that great to begin with. I have had few problems porting my C code between compilers, although once I move my code into Unix I abandon all hope of moving it back and forth between enviroments. As far as only running one application at a time, I didn't feel that was the purpose of my original response. As I understood it the person I responded to was unaware of the fact that Apple has in fact choose a windowing system for it's Unix. It has selected X-Windows. Now that X-Windows in "standard" for A/UX that should clear the path for them to implement a "friendly" shell to Unix. If you want to run Mac Binary code, then do it under the Mac OS. Running it under Unix doesn't seem to be a bright idea. I am not a big fan of running different enviroments at the same time. Although it's a good idea it's not always what it's cracked up to be. I am aware of the problems with doing Multi-tasking right now on the Mac. And I also find it stupid that you can't have more than one task out-putting to the screen at once. Although, Unix is Multi-tasking and you can still fork processes off that don't do screen I/O. Addmittidly this is a Kludge, but it's not completely unworkable. When working with Ada on a Vax/11 750 it did allow more than one process to do output at the same time, but that normally screwed up the screen so much that I only had one process doing output anyways. So you can't say that this problem is unique to the Mac. A/UX has problems, I'll admit that. But given the task that Apple had to do they didn't do too bad in my opinion. It's a start and I'm looking forward to seeing the progress that the product makes. But in my opinion if you want a Unix workstation you should go with a Sun anyways. But if you want my real opinion, I dislike Unix and can't understand why someone would want to take a beautiful machine like the Mac II and handicapp it with an OS from the late 60's and early 70's who's major accomplishment was the advent of character bases I/O so that you could tie up a CPU to do I/O all day long. Many of the systems today running Unix are now triing to get away from that character based model, and "improve" performance by doing the character I/O at the workstation, and simply sending messages after the workstation has already dealt with the User. Seems kinda of a funny modification to an OS who's claim to fame is how well it handles characters from the terminal. Anyways, thank you very much for the information. I will keep it in mind when/if I make future postings regarding A/UX. Let's hope Apple keeps making progress to the point that I can say I like Unix. David