gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (10/25/88)
[MicroTimes is 'California's computer magazine', back issues available for
$4 from +1 415 652 3810. The interview is from the Nov88 issue, pg 52.]
Steve Guttman and Mary Eisenhart interviewed John Warnock, founder of Adobe,
at a recent conference. He mentions Sun and NeWS several times, e.g.:
"Q: Will we be seeing PostScript on a RISC chip anytime in the future?
A: Actually, we ported Display PostScript to the (IBM) PC-RT, which is RISC,
and we've also ported it to the SPARC chip, which is on the Sun 4..."
"Q: Sun has some kind of Display PostScript system interpreter in their
NeWS system. Does that make them a competitor in any sense?
A: They've implemented their own interpreter, I guess. I would rather
have that kind of competitor than this Presentation Manager stuff.
At least they're spiritually for the same purposes."
"Q: Are there any UNIX machines that PostScript graphics are currently
running on?
A: There's Sun's implementation of NeWS... No, there really isn't, except
in our laboratories. Actually, NeXT will be the first Display PostScript
platform."
To me it sounds like he thinks NeWS really *is* a PostScript implementation,
but keeps remembering that the Adobe lawyers tell him to say it isn't...
--
John Gilmore {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid,amdahl}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com
Noriega-Bush in '88 -- a *crack* team.
Let's put the white powder (CIA = Cocaine Import Agency) in the white house!greid@ondine.COM (Glenn Reid) (10/26/88)
> [MicroTimes is 'California's computer magazine', back issues available for > $4 from +1 415 652 3810. The interview is from the Nov88 issue, pg 52.] > > Steve Guttman and Mary Eisenhart interviewed John Warnock, founder of Adobe, > at a recent conference. He mentions Sun and NeWS several times, e.g.: > > "Q: Sun has some kind of Display PostScript system interpreter in their > NeWS system. Does that make them a competitor in any sense? > A: They've implemented their own interpreter, I guess. I would rather > have that kind of competitor than this Presentation Manager stuff. > At least they're spiritually for the same purposes." > > "Q: Are there any UNIX machines that PostScript graphics are currently > running on? > A: There's Sun's implementation of NeWS... No, there really isn't, except > in our laboratories. Actually, NeXT will be the first Display PostScript > platform." > > To me it sounds like he thinks NeWS really *is* a PostScript implementation, > but keeps remembering that the Adobe lawyers tell him to say it isn't... Adobe lawyers work for John Warnock, and he doesn't have to be reminded of anything.:-) In this interview, Dr. Warnock is simply acknowledging Sun's efforts in implementing a clone PostScript language interpreter. If you read the last Q and A above one more time, Sun's implementation of NeWS does run PostScript graphics on UNIX machines, in a sense, but it is referred to as an implementation of NeWS, not of PostScript. All very tricky legal landmines, but I can assure you that Dr. Warnock knows exactly what NeWS is, and I think the important message in between the lines here is that Adobe has a great interest in Sun Microsystems, and would love to see them use our Display PostScript implementation rather than a "clone." Disclaimer: I work at Adobe Systems and this is not an impartial commentary, although I like to think it is at least reasonable.... Glenn Reid Adobe Systems
matheny@Unisyn.COM (John Matheny) (10/26/88)
In article <4259@adobe.COM> greid@adobe.UUCP (Glenn Reid) writes: >All very tricky legal landmines, but I can assure you that Dr. Warnock >knows exactly what NeWS is, and I think the important message in >between the lines here is that Adobe has a great interest in Sun >Microsystems, and would love to see them use our Display PostScript >implementation rather than a "clone." Adobe and the PostScript language enjoy a great deal of respect and credibility in the marketplace. Most of this is directly transferrable to Display PostScript and will undoubtably give it an initial market advantage over NeWS. However, the fact is that Display PostScript lacks many of the capabilites of NeWS that are essential. Therefore, I would like to encourage Adobe and Sun to work with each other and merge the two systems. This action would assure the advancement of the state-of-the-art of display and user interface technology. BTW -- The idea of using PostScript for screen displays was originated at Sun by James Gosling & Co. and was implemented in NeWS long before Display PostScript. That makes Display PostScript the "clone", no? -- John Matheny Internet: matheny@Unisyn.COM UUCP: uunet!unisyn!matheny Unisyn, Inc., 3300 Mitchell Lane, Boulder, CO 80301 +1 303 443 7878
guy@auspex.UUCP (Guy Harris) (10/28/88)
>All very tricky legal landmines, but I can assure you that Dr. Warnock >knows exactly what NeWS is, and I think the important message in >between the lines here is that Adobe has a great interest in Sun >Microsystems, and would love to see them use our Display PostScript >implementation rather than a "clone." In other words, you've either extended PostScript to handle input devices, or would love to see Sun extend Display PostScript in such a fashion so that it *could* replace the current interpreter in NeWS?
sjs@jcricket.ctt.bellcore.com (Stan Switzer) (10/28/88)
In article <317@auspex.UUCP> guy@auspex.UUCP (Guy Harris) writes in response to Glen Reid: > >All very tricky legal landmines, but I can assure you that Dr. Warnock > >knows exactly what NeWS is, and I think the important message in > >between the lines here is that Adobe has a great interest in Sun > >Microsystems, and would love to see them use our Display PostScript > >implementation rather than a "clone." > > In other words, you've either extended PostScript to handle input > devices, or would love to see Sun extend Display PostScript in such a > fashion so that it *could* replace the current interpreter in NeWS? This is starting to get interesting. And here we have ringside seats! I think it is obvious that a company that is trying to create a commodity workstation market and a company that makes its money by selling a line of software will have different vested interests in areas such as these. Clearly Sun's position is enhanced and Adobe's position is somewhat diminished by a product like NeWS. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Too bad. They're both great products. Given the current market dynamics, it will never be enough for a software company to build a great product and sit on it. A viable software house will need a continuous stream of new software to keep ahead of the me-toos and the GNUs of the world (God bless 'em). (Of course, another approach would be to build a good piece of software and play a dirty trick on your competitors like licensing it to them on reasonable terms, thereby gaining the good will of the industry and the customer base and promoting the development of standards in the bargain. Anyone recognize NFS here? Again, though, the existance of NFS did a great deal to create the market that Sun hoped to capture. Sun could afford to be generous here.) So, it's a complicated world, but I guess we already knew that. Back to the original topic: Can we expect NeWS and Display PostScript to converge? I know a bit about NeWS, and I know a bit about PostScript, but I haven't found any particularly useful info about Display Postsctipt (perhaps I'm not looking in the right places). I do know this: Sun's NeWS has introduced few gratuitous incompatabilities with Postscript (and they have been beaten about the head with a wet fish for those few that they did). Has Adobe returned the favor? In particular, does Display PostScript have anything like the following features? Have they followed Sun's lead or gone off in a different direction? 1) Canvases 2) Color objects 3) processes (fork) 4) monitors 5) overlays 6) copyarea 7) damage 8) tokenized or compressed input 9) objects as dictionaries 10) events and interests Speaking only for myself, Stan Switzer sjs@ctt.bellcore.com "Iron fist Philosophy / Is your life worth a painting?"
"Michael_Powers.Henr801M"@XEROX.COM (10/29/88)
John Matheny writes: >BTW -- The idea of using PostScript for screen displays was originated >at Sun by James Gosling & Co. and was implemented in NeWS long before >Display PostScript. That makes Display PostScript the "clone", no? Actually, this should say the "idea of EXTENDING Postcript to be a FULL FLEDGED WINDOW SYSTEM" was originated by Jame Gosling. From what I understand (and certainly how it works inside Xerox) anyone who wishes to test a Page Description Language implementation usually creates some type of Screen Display code to see it work prior to actually hooking the system up to a printer. Therefore Display Postscript probably has existed in various forms for a long long time. The slowness of it all in times past probably hindered people from saying "Hey, what if we actually used this as our display engine...". Just thought I'd throw in my two cents Mike Powers powers.henr801m@xerox.com Xerox Corp. 1350 Jefferson Road, Rochester, NY 14623